OSX LION 10.7 Sound Quality Vs. Snow Leopard 10.6

Sounds like behind the scenes sample rate conversion.

Sounds like behind the scenes sample rate conversion.

-bob_olhsson

I heard that there may be ways to turn off all the extra fat that is going on in Lion in the the background that is effecting the audio? Any ideas?

I'm beginning to feel that every time there's a problem with computer-based audio playback, it's an Apple computer.

That's kind of a cheap shot Jaakkoo!

You know there's lots of us Mac OSX guys rockin' the masters....

What the OP needs to describe is the conditions under which he is listening.

System settings? Core audio? Internal I/O? Audio card? 3rd party driver? FireWire interface? Etc...

I haven't tried Lion yet, always best to let Apple work out a kink or two in the OS before making a major leap.

Best, JT

I have used Apples exclusively since 1984, except for buying one Compaq laptop just to know how that system worked if needed.

Very very few problems, ever.

In my Mastering Room, I use Apples at both ends.  Always works perfectly.

I have been to countless major professional studios using Protools, Logic, etc, all over the world.  Every single one of them was a Mac.

Back to topic…

Josh - you have a new computer with a new OS running - are you using the same interface?

There are many things other than Lion itself that can cause what you're talking about.

Give us some detail and a bunch of brainiacs will put their minds to the issue.  We may even solve it.

What were you using before?  Which exact Mac?  What's the new one?  What interface?  What software?  Has anything else in your studio changed?

Cheerio
JW

Are we suggesting there is something in the OS that steps between any audio / the interface / the software? 

Are we suggesting there is something in the OS that steps between any audio / the interface / the software? 

-treelady

According to Apple you cannot put Snow Leopard on any of their new computers that come with Lion installed (I did not try to install Snow Leopard on the brand new mac). So I tried it 2 of last years Mac models:

MacBookPro
Mac Mini

Interface: Weiss AFI1 (With latest Drivers/Firmware)
Software: Soundblade, Wavelab 7, Peak
Hard Drive: Glyph Firewire external drive

I used same software versions and hardware for all tests.

After speaking to several manufactures & programers, they confirmed that they are more things happening with the audio in "Lion" that have nothing to do with the software you are using.

I have tried to master with Lion and the audio issue was even more pronounced when Deesing (Weiss DS1).  

These results are repeatable and consistent when switching to Lion.

I did a Google search on the web (Mac Lion Vs. Snow Sound Quality) and found this link:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Snow-Leopard-vs-Lion-sound-quality
If you read through all the posts there are other people describing similar issues.

I think once mastering engineers on this forum, etc. start buying new Macs/Upgrading to Lion, they will here a difference that deteriorate their final product.

How about the other way around. Lion is what is REALLY happening and Snow Leopard is flawed?

Just saying...

We have one Mac with Lion on it and it is running very smoothly. We use it mostly for Graphics and Video so not a lot of chance to listen to really good audio on it. Maybe I can get a chance this weekend???

Different computers running different software can sometimes sound different so the proof would be to get Lion and Snow Leopard on the same machine and see if there is a difference.

Best of luck getting this all sorted out.

<GRIN> maybe you need to buy one of these power cords for your Mac to really make the machine sound better. http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20Power%20Cords.htm

Are we suggesting there is something in the OS that steps between any audio / the interface / the software? 

-treelady

CoreAudio lives there, which is free to insert any processing between the software and driver that Apple feels necessary.  iTunes has SRC, EQ and dynamics and laptops have a limiter in place for example.  Typically, the client software requests this, but in the end there really is nothing to stop Apple putting a default chain of junk in place.

cgc,

When you say laptop has limiter, is it on the built in line-out? Or does it kick in with any core audio driver? Or is it just on the built in speakers?

     kindest regards,

       ANdyP

The limiter is for the built-in speakers on all models after a certain point (2007?), but some Apple software also has default dynamics/limiting like iTunes.  The last Macbook model I looked at, the DAC was the same for both speakers and headphone out so the limiting would affect both since that's where that limiting happens.

http://www.stuffedcow.net/macbook_audio

http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4207.html

Thanks,

  but it doesnt affect a third party core-audio driver, does it?

      KIndest regards,

      ANdyP

No, it just affects the built-in speakers and output and not another audio device.  The built-in outputs are grounded to the the other ports anyway so you get some terrible noise quite often.  Using VGA and the headphone out is particularly problematic.  Routing audio over HDMI would also bypass the on board DAC.

Hi cgc,

  thanks. - Much of the noise goes if you run off the battery!

   kindest regards,

      ANdyP

Still lots to look through.

For example - if you were to create a boot partition on your older system that has Lion on it you could make a direct A/B comparison.

You're still using two different CPUs with two different installs.  It's quite possibly something to do with the OS.  We can't eliminate it.  But we don't know enough to point at Lion either.  It's one of several things that are different about your system.

Can you make a 10.7 partition or disk and boot your other system into it?

You're still using two different CPUs with two different installs.

-johnwhynot

I am doing the test on the same CPU/Computer. I just tried the test on 2 different models of Mac.
But on each mac I installed both OS 10.7 & 10.6. Also when I first heard the issue a
couple of months ago I used boot camp with both OS and had the same issues. 

I think the only way to hear this is to try it. It is consistent with Lion. Before I made this
post I went through multiple tests.  I have been mastering for almost 20 years and have not 
had this issue before.

The built-in outputs are grounded to the the other ports anyway so you get some terrible noise quite often.  Using VGA and the headphone out is particularly problematic.

-cgc

Much of the noise goes if you run off the battery!

-strangeandbouncy

We present many music research lecturers, most of whom use Macs. Various versions of MacBooks have horrendous ground noise issues between VGA and headphone out, whether on battery power or not. The only solution is to xfmr isolate the analog outputs. Works every time.
However, how an OS can alter the digital data stream of a third party application and/or interface is beyond me. I need some convincin'.

Harold, Hi . .

     note I said "much of the noise" . . .

   it also goes completely with FW devices (mini-me, duet, or Lightbridge) . . . so i respectfully disasgree that transformers are the only solution! ( I guess you mean if you use the built in outputs?)

     kindest regards,

       ANdyP