Keith Jarret Solo concerts - Koln! - Manfred Eicher and Neumann U-67s

Martin Wieland engineered. Eicher doesn't engineer. He is apparently an excellent bassist. I saw an interview with him live in Berlin and he and Keith Jarrett do not have a written contract; their entire contractual connection is based upon a handshake that occurred many years ago.

I would recommend that you listen to the trio if you haven't. Many spectacular recordings there as well. Many like to shit on Jarrett: he has created his own genre, so I tend to discount the critics. 

Cheers,

Alan Tomlinson

Jarrett is an amazing musician.  I've walked out of two of his shows, both because he basically refused to play, preferring instead to berate the audience, on one occasion for being "Canadian" and the other for being "Not European"  Apparently European audiences sit perfectly still and are immune to colds.

Pretty dumb.  The second show, the many dozens of walk-outs were refunded the rather steep ticket price.  Not me.  I was comped.

The Köln Concert album was a major favorite of mine.

Also, Paul Motian was the drummer and I was really disappointed not to be able to watch him play.

I'm not sure if that's why people make bm on him.  But I'll never attend another of his concerts.

I've heard that about Jarrett... Classic! And the photo I saw of the old dwarfish looking German man by the piano... I no longer believe was the producer Manfred Eicher. He looks rather young still.
I've never seen Keith live, although I've devoured youtube footage... all the way from his time with Miles Davis...also  the few solo improv videos available... and lot's of viewing and listening to his trio's... particularly the most recent with Jack Dejohnette... and I've put 100's of hrs into his recorded solo improvs... including the 6 city Japan run.... all the europe stuff.
For me it's his ability to go any direction... with all the classical chops and the jazz chops mixed... it's just... and that left hand! (His ability to have BOTH hands doing impossible things at the same time)... and also importantly..... the SOUND of those pianos and recordings.

I have heard Kieth actually bend a piano note... which is not really possible.
I have heard him create harmonic resonances in the piano that sound like they could possibly escape completely and start their own universe.
But that's just my 2 ears.

(Drummers side note on Dejohnette - he said "if the tempos moving fast and it's an odd time like 5 or 7 or 13... rather then bother counting it, I just go, ONE! ONE! ONE! ONE! ONE! ONE! ONE! ONE! ONE!...
and I never lose the one that way...)

Speaking of the Bosendorfer, I recorded Oscar Peterson and Ella Fitzgerald and Oscar was playing a 12' Bosendorfer. He was just having a ball with the bottom octave stuff. It sounded like thunder at times and ray guns at other times. Just incredible.

Bill

Quote: " I've walked out of two of his shows, both because he basically refused to play, preferring instead to berate the audience."

This could be understandable.

Arthur Rubenstein used to say, that "everywhere in the world when someone gets ill, they go to a hospital, or take to their bed to get better.

But in Tel Aviv, when someone gets ill, they come to my Concerts and cough all the way through them."

Oscar Peterson was a very tall man.

But a 12' Bosendorfer ?

9'2" or 9'6"

P

Ha, ha, Your right! What was I thinking. Sorry.

Bill

Quote:"
OscarPeterson was a very tall man.
But a12' Bosendorfer ?

9'2"or 9'6"
P

-peterpoyser

I KNOW how Bill did that. The big ones SEEM like 12ft! They also sound like they are 12 ft big.
In my college there was a 9'6'' Bosendorfer Concert Grand in the exceptionally well designed recital hall. FANTASTIC ACOUSTICS with electronic curtains for damping or vice versa.
This piano was OFF limits for regular jamming or recording.
This of course did NOT stop ME.
My trick... stash my microphone case under stage curtain during class...
Return to Com. building at 9pm... tell security guard 'my backpack is in the recital hall... will you unlock it so I can grab it? He would unlock... then leave back to station. I learned how to DUCT TAPE the door jam so it would shut, but NOT re-lock.
I would then carefully shut the heavy door... walk back past the security guy with a joke and a thanks,,, aim for the exit,,, and then run up the stairs and hide in a rehearsal room... until Security locked down the whole building and went home.
I would then have ALL NIGHT in a perfect room with a perfect piano... not to mention "Media Loan" where you could check out dif. microphones. I remember becoming a fan of a pair of Sennheiser 421's on that piano. And I would get fully lost in the sounds that beast could make.To this day... that piano is the size of Texas to me. And I even recall telling someone... "I used to play on an 18 ft Bosendorfer..." So I got Bill beat by 6ft on that one! Gos knows they can SOUND like they are HUGE!

Quote: " This of course did NOT stop ME."

With the utmost respect.

In your opinion, would you say.

That you, are person, whose words.

Can be reliably trusted as true and honest?

Quote: "I even recall telling someone... "I used to play on an 18 ft Bosendorfer...""

Quite.

Remarkable!

Quote: " remember becoming a fan of a pair of Sennheiser 421's on that piano."

You were cooling the mic's?

Or was this a courageously innovative choice?

Did the roll off on the low frequencies, attract you to the 421's sound?

Or the early roll off of the higher frequencies, that prevent many of the Concert Piano's, Harmonic Overtones being captured, interfering with the Sound?  

Or both simultaneously?

Quote: "they can SOUND like they are HUGE!"

To be entirely honest.

I have done 'Huge' a great deal.

With nothing more than a wave of the hand.

But it would not have occurred to me to use a Bosendorfer Piano in such a context.

I know a little about Piano's, and in my experience Bosendorfers are overwhelmingly designed, built and regulated to create a sound that is predominantly Beautiful in Tone.

On the other hand, there are Manufacturers like Steinway, for instance. Whose  Concert Instruments, to my ears at least, appear to be designed, built and regulated with the fundemental intention of Projecting Sound.

Now it is possible to design, build and regulate a Concert Grand to provide by the Players Touch, the widest possible range of Tonalities; but there are limits to what can be achieved via a Single Instrument, and at a certain point the Instruments Form, must follow its expected Function.

And if you really have to Project an Instruments Volume of Tone  through the Sound of an Orchestra, then you need one specifically designed, built and regulated to achieve that task.

That task requires an Instrument Capable of Projecting a Huge Volume of Tone.

But for that I would never once in my Life have chosen a Bosendorfer.

It's better for other types of more delicate and sensitive Music.

And part of the reason the Company was bought out.

Orchestral Works, lend towards Steinways.

Because they cut through better.

Quote: "6ft on that one!"

You could buy a very good Grand Piano 6 ft Long.

But you would find that for many Orchestral Works.

The Volume of Tone from The String Length insufficient.

That's why you need the extra size of a Concert Instrument.

Bigger Strings, equate to Creating & Projecting, Volume of Tone.

But that's only part of the story of what gives a Piano its type of Sound.

A single Triangle or a single Tambourine is capable of cutting through a Symphony Orchestra Playing Tutti at FFF.

And it's the fundamentals of design and manufacture regarding the Instruments Tonality, that create this ability to Project Huge Volumes of Tone.

Good Luck with all your Musical Adventures.

P

Quote:" remember becoming a fan of a pair of Sennheiser 421's on that piano."
You werecooling the mic's?

Or wasthis a courageously innovative choice?

Did theroll off on the low frequencies, attract you to the 421's sound?

Or theearly roll off of the higher frequencies, that prevent many of the ConcertPiano's, Harmonic Overtones being captured, interfering with the Sound?  

Or both simultaneously?

P

-peterpoyser

P... I was 18/19 at the time... new to "pro recording techniques" and full of my own wild experiments.

I lost some credits along the way for being "too experimental" and not keeping accurate notes.

I recall though... of all the mics available from the media loan... those 2 sennheisers did something magical. I doubt I touched the roll off... as I didn't know what it did at the time.

Actually... as far as renegade experiments go...not much has changed along my route. For better or worse. But...

I have never played a more beautiful and rich sounding piano in my life. And may never again.

I have never used a 421 on a piano, but given the breadth of the pattern on a 421, if it were the mic that was available, as Nic has suggested, I imagine I could get a good sound on piano with a pair. Of course the piano would have to be 12 feet long!

Bill

I played the biggest Bosendorfer, and it is hard to believe it was any less than 14 feet, just from the feel and sound.

Of course it had to be 9' 6", and it had 97 keys!

Quote: " it had 97 keys!"

And this just to open the lid?

Presumably you are very hot on Security!

88 is enough already, unless you are making A New Music.

Quote: "I have never played a more beautiful and rich sounding piano in my life."

Eloquently  put, and as you were enjoying the sound and touch so much it encouraged and made you WANT TO PLAY.

It's rather like finding a Girl, you know you would be happy, to spend every day of your life with.

Relating to the Instruments Emotionally, it becomes a Vehicle for Expression.

Some Cars are like that, you simply WANT to Drive Them.

Whilst others simply get you from A to B.

I'll post some pictures.

Quote: "I was 18/19 at the time... new to "pro recording techniques" and full of my own wild experiments."

When I was young, I was 'Heaven Blessed' to be able to work and rub shoulders with the MOST Successful and Highly Paid Artists in the World, and their support Teams of Musicians and Engineers.

I kept my mouth shut, made myself positively useful to them in every way possible, and like a sponge spent every moment carefully listening to what they said and observing everything they did.

Learning the best possible way to do everything that had to be done, simply by working with and rubbing shoulders directly with 'The Greats.'

It was a fast lane to knowledge and experience, whilst I pursued my Musical Career.

Experimentation came later.

Experimentation sprang from a sound knowledge of basics and fundamentals, although I feel that perhaps what you call Experimentation, I would call Creativity.

Producers and Engineers in those days were "Incredibly Creative" as a normal state of being.

So I absorbed that creative approach  as part and parcel of my education.

Quote: "those 2 sennheisers did something magical."

It is a staple of any Studios Collection.

In my opinion it's an underrated mic by many people.

You are not alone in not really knowing how to use it, I have noted many don't.

George Harrison (An English Guitarist) used them for vocals at his Bangladesh Concerts so have many other Top Performers. Al Schmitt (A Quality American Engineer) likes them on Tom Toms and Percussion.

My first experience of them was when I had to play Acoustic Lead Guitar on a Dreadnought, on a hauntingly beautiful piece, sang by a wonderful female singer, sadly no longer with us.

The Engineer placed a KM 84 angled towards the fingerboard side of the sound hole and a 421 closely parallel and directly in towards the bridge/tailpiece.  They were used as a stereo spread and gave a full, thick, clear tone with strong bell like harmonics.

The effect seemed very distinctive, coupled with the particular Guitar I used, which had been especially imported into the country for me by special order, (no one else seemed to have them at that time at all) and the special New Type of String they were strung with, that had a better sound, (again, no one else was using this New Type of String at that time).

Both Guitarists and Engineers can be extremely conservative by their inherent natures.

So a good rule to follow (and something Trevor Horn also likes to do if he can) is get the Best Sounding Gear, The Newest Ideas that are around, but only if they have Killer Sound.

But get and use those Sounds, way before, anyone else gets a chance to.

Set trends, rather than follow them.

The 421's have a progressive 5 stage roll off for the Bass.

Now if you struggle to get a great Piano Sound what you can do is this.

If you have great Sounding E.Q. simply having it in the Chain can lift the quality of the Sound.

A good way to start is by having a good E.Q. set flat all the way along, until you come to point of 100Hz.

At 100 Hz slowly and gradually set a very, very gentle, and natural sounding, roll off curve, all the way down to DC.

This adds Clarity in the Bass end of the Piano, where things otherwise might start of sound confused, heavy and muddy rather than Rich.

When you Play a Concert Grand with your ears so directly close to the Strings, that Bass is Rich and Full but it's also extremely Clear Sounding indeed.

This with give you that type of effect, and it's a good place from which to start, It wouldn't have occurred to me to think of this, but the 421's Roll off may give similar.

By the way, many Percussion Instruments by their inherent nature, give off an excess of harmonic  overtones, some way beyond 100 kHz, and yes I do mean kHz.

This is why, as I wrote earlier, the Tonality of some are able to cut right through the sound of a Full Orchestra, but we don't always want that degree of sharpness, do we?

So using a mic with a more limited than is common frequency response, that curbs the excessive edginess of the sound, but capture the inherent fullness of sound of the Instruments 'body of sound'.

Can be an Ideal Solution.

Find out who the Great Engineers are, and learn all you can about their techniques, and why they do things, and what they use to do this and that with, and most importantly, the reason why.

Of all the questions, that can be asked in life. Like Who, What, Where, When.

The most important of all is to ask and know is WHY!

Good Luck with your Music.

P

Quote:" it had 97 keys!"And thisjust to open the lid?Presumably you are very hot on Security!88 isenough already, unless you are making A New Music.

-peterpoyser

Pete...

Not sure if you're entirely serious or not, but the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand HAS an extra helping of keys in the low end...

...and they're all black too.

I always thought that I could see each oscillation of the bottom string when struck hard.

Cheers,
Tim

PS Bosendorfers are the only pianos that could stand up to the abuse that Liszt used to put them through. The allegation is that Liszt never broke a string or key on one. 

I love Bosendorfer - and as I tend to be more reflective in my piano playing style anyway, get easily immersed in them.

My jazz piano finals (1993) at music college were delayed as I was on tour with The Pretty Things, but my then head of school - Charles Rae - organised it for me to practice at their Vienna showroom.

It was one with the extra octave in the low end, but was in a really interesting room if I recall. This room was only a little larger than the piano itself, but had an incredibly high ceiling with an inverted 'cone' coming back down toward the piano. It sounded lovely.

barks

Quote:" This of course did NOT stop ME."

With theutmost respect.

In youropinion, would you say.

That you,are person, whose words.

Can be reliablytrusted as true and honest?

Good Luck with all your Musical Adventures.

P

-peterpoyser

Peter's distinction between Steinways and Bosendorfers exactly matches my experience.

I love playing Bosendorfers - I know of only one in a studio in LA and it's not a full-sized one (not the 9'6" one with the weird keys at the bottom).  I can't leave it alone when I'm on a session there, but it is so responsive that the players I've recorded on it need a few minutes to adjust.

Mr. Jarrett might have had a point with the coughing etc if he had deigned to begin playing.

But he hadn't yet.

JW

There were three 6 foot Bosendorfers at the college.
One was definitely special. I particularly liked it's tone with the una corder pedal. There was just a lovely sense of clarity and depth to its tone.

Getting back to Keith Jarrett - I love his recordings with Jan Erik Kongshaug behind the desk.

I saw him perform at the Royal Festival Hall in 1992.
No doubting his musicianship but his attitude left much to be desired.
They stopped playing halfway through a tune as he was convinced he was being illegally recorded, as he had seen a little red light in the audience.
They refused to continue until security had dealt with it.
Turned out to be a doctor whose pager was on as he was on emergency call - the poor guy was clearly embarrassed.
It really divided the audience and a  few people left.
He then proceeded with a diatribe about the worthlessness of the New World Music movement - it took about 20 minutes to resolve!
Strange and uncomfortable experience - but once they were all playing it was exceptional.

barks

Keith Jarrett stops time for me.

-iris

I wouldn't dream of walking out of one of his concerts, I don't care how much berating he does. Its transitory, but the music...

Audiences, whether they know it or not, and they usually don't, are privileged to be perceived by him as equal partners in the event. 

My personal faves are Solo-Concerts Bremen/Lausanne from 73 and Paris Concert from a few years ago. Although I'm still working my way into the Sun Bear Concerts.

When my daughter was 12, my god-daughter gave me Solo-Concerts on CD and it got a lot of play requests in the car. Shortly after that Jarrett announced a solo show at Disney Hall. I bought us seats in the choir loft positioned so we could watch his hands. It was a transformational event for a 12-year-old pianist. When he came out for his 9th or 10th curtain call I thought her head might explode.

(Re: Bosendorfers - to play around with one of those giant ones is to be amazed that human beings can manufacture something so perfect.