To bus compress or not to bus compress before sending to ME??

Do exactly what you (and client) think SOUNDS like the record you want to make.

Compress for SOUND, not for level or expected later effect.

In many cases, the less the better, as long as the sound is what you want.

From my website's FAQ:

"If you wish to use mix-bus compression it is best to apply it early in the mix process

and to use conservative settings. It is not advisable to add mix-bus compression or any

other processing at the end of the mixing process.

Please do not use brick-wall limiters, finalizers, or any other additional “masterizers” on

your mix prior to sending your files for mastering. If you feel this additional processing

is essential to your mixes, it is best to provide one version of the mix with it in place and

one without, with both files clearly labeled as such."

From my website's FAQ:"If you wish to use mix-bus compression it is best to apply it early in the mix processand to use conservative settings. It is not advisable to add mix-bus compression or anyother processing at the end of the mixing process.Please do not use brick-wall limiters, finalizers, or any other additional “masterizers” onyour mix prior to sending your files for mastering. If you feel this additional processingis essential to your mixes, it is best to provide one version of the mix with it in place andone without, with both files clearly labeled as such."

-acorneau

I don't know if I'd agree with "it is best to apply it early in the mix process and use conservative settings". They should do whatever the mix needs as long as it's not processing just for the sake of level.

Huntley 

Do exactly what you (and client) think SOUNDS like the record you want to make.Compress for SOUND, not for level or expected later effect.In many cases, the less the better, as long as the sound is what you want. -compasspnt

This. (which I learned from Terry)  And then I always mention to the ME which comp I used.  (Usually an API 2500 with only about 2db reduction for a bit of gel and punch)

I've had ME's add their own 2500 to the master and didn't care for the X2 sound of the API, hence I mention which comp I used in case they have one... But if they want to double it up and it sounds good then no complaints.

I don't know if I'd agree with "it is best to apply it early in the mix process and use conservative settings". They should do whatever the mix needs as long as it's not processing just for the sake of level.Huntley 

-huntley_miller

If one has to ask whether or not to use mix-bus compression then one probably doesn't know where the line is between "just right" and "too much", thus my recommendation for conservative settings.

I've found that even some experienced engineers are under the impression that mastering engineers want versions without 2-bus compression.   My answer to them when they ask if they should take off bus processing before sending to mastering is that anything that was on the bus during the mix and affected mixing decisions is part of the mix and has to stay, or else they're not sending the same mix they heard and their clients approved.

Exactly.

Mix until you like it.

Then send it off.

Magically, it comes back even better.

I've found that even some experienced engineers are under the impression that mastering engineers want versions without 2-bus compression.   My answer to them when they ask if they should take off bus processing before sending to mastering is that anything that was on the bus during the mix and affected mixing decisions is part of the mix and has to stay, or else they're not sending the same mix they heard and their clients approved.

-thearflounge

It's maybe due to the many misguided "Mastering Tutorial" type pages/info out there now. Some inexperienced people reading this crap take it as gospel, and the falsehood spreads. Here's a classic example:

http://www.improvemysound.com/getreadypc.html

Exactly.
Mix until you like it.
Then send it off.
Magically, it comes back even better.

-compasspnt

Hallelujah for that!
I'm more curious if this premise also includes well dialed spacial enhancers?
I'm super fond of Waves 'Center'... have put it on submix stems and many times the master bus... also realized along the way it could impart some strange hollowness if not used well.

I've heard it suggested to send a reference mix with the spacial stuff so they know what were going for... but let the ME duplicate the vibe from a non 'spacialized' mix... which seems unlikely to me? That seems like a delicate area to futz with.

I was told by a very pro ME that he could deal with some 2bus compression...
but NOT limiting.

If you're asking this or having doubts about it you probably shouldn't use bus compression. 

In doubt, you could always send two versions to your ME, one with bus compression and one without, and explain to him why you tried compressing so he can listen and understand what you want. He should then be able to choose what version to use!

I tell everybody that if the two buss processing is part of "the sound" of the mix,  then leave it in.  Don't add it add the end because you think it's suppose to be there.

When I mix the only two buss processing that goes on is my mastering chain at the end.  Of course being able to A/B through the mastering chain while you mix is awfully handy.

If it sounds good, do it.
If you're not sure or can't really tell, don't.
Leave a little headroom.
Check it in mono, at high and low listening levels, at home, in the car and on phones.
If it passes those tests it's probably OK.
You're mastering guy will call if he has any questions.

      ...Don't add it add the end because you think it's suppose to be there...

-silvertone

Heck, that goes for ALL signal processing.

The thing that I dont really understand is that one of the reasons a lot of people (including myself)  are going to ME's is for the quality of their gear.  Honestly if I had a 8 thousand dollar compressor , I'd just master it myself.            Why in God's name would you put that burdon on the customer who is going to end up doing it with some plug-in or crappy outboard compressor??      I thought the whole point of a ME is to do the duty of  the final 2 channel processing.    

Have we really really reached a point where the ME's only job is to make it louder??   

I'm not trying to be critical or rude, I just  want to be clear on what to expect from a person I'm sending hundreds of dollars to.  I was hoping it was to take advantage of their world class eq's and gear.   

Thanks

The gear is one thing, but it is the ears, instinct and experience you really pay for . . . .

   and the impartiality.

The gear is one thing, but it is the ears, instinct and experience you really pay for . . . .   and the impartiality.

-strangeandbouncy

Duh!!  Why does it have to be one or the other??   You know exactly what I'm saying, please dont try to turn this into a GEAR vs. Skills discussion, I think thats basically covered in every other thread!!  :)

The ME's job is still what it has been for decades. To assemble a final project and maintain a standard of quality.

This whole loudness thing (and this nonsense of mastering ONE song at a time for digital release) is something else, and I'm not sure it has anything to do with mastering.

An $8000 compressor ISN'T better than a plug-in. It's different.
And Bryan, the GEAR is a sales pitch for someone who is trying to cover up some other deficiency. I understand if someone wants to list their gear because it puts a certain type of client at ease, but one of my favorite mastering engineers is 100% in-the-box, using run-of-the-mill plugins, and he is NOT the "budget" choice. He's just REALLY good at what he does (and has a ridiculous list of credits to match).
I think your feelings on the subject stem from not really understanding what a mastering engineer does.

The ME's job is still what it has been for decades. To assemble a final project and maintain a standard of quality.This whole loudness thing (and this nonsense of mastering ONE song at a time) is something else, and I'm not sure it has anything to do with mastering.An $8000 compressor ISN'T better than a plug-in. It's different.And Bryan, the GEAR is a sales pitch for someone who is trying to cover up some other deficiency. One of my favorite mastering engineers is 100% in-the-box, using run-of-the-mill plugins, and he is NOT the "budget" choice. He's just REALLY good at what he does.

-podgorny

Thats cool!!  If you are so happy with the skills of the ITB ME, would it not make sense to leave the compression for him to do??

"I think your feelings on the subject stem from not really understanding what a mastering engineer does. "

Thats why I started the thread!!!     I'm expecting the ME to be a person I pay to do the final compression , EQ, and processing of a 2 channel mix!!  I'd rather not compress the final mix when I feel I am paying someone for their experience when it is decades greater than mine.   Honestly, what should I be expecting instead??

Thanks