Professional development

What software and platform are you running for playback?

IOW, what plug-in types can you use?

I've struggled with this. I will continue to struggle with this.

I'm attempting to master something similar myself at the moment... it's got some muddy and ponderous lows, with certain notes jumping out, and others buried in the murk.
I've tightened it up a bit... (started with a 50hrtz hi-pass... something that D. Collins mentioned) and the mids are more assertive now... but as you say... it still feels a bit 'out of control'. And the headphones just showed me I've 'hardened' the mix... too much brick wall I think on the master!?... so back to the learning curve. I feel like there must be a good way to even out the bass notes more.
 Guess I'll try one of the multi bands on the few tracks with the rubber bass? Isn't there some good presets for that on the Waves LinMB?

Domc... as a great reference for dance tracks, I would recommend ANYTHING you can find by TIPPER.
His low end is so tight... so spot on... that I wonder perpetually how he can
dial it in so mighty... but perfectly balanced for every system.
And not just his own creations... he masters for SpoonBill and others.

Believe me when I say I've picked his brain... and mostly he makes a face, and a depressed comment on how much time he spends on it.

Dare I ask, but did you try multi-band compression?

Nicholas, Dom is speaking from a Mastering perspective; you are talking from a mixing perspective.

i don't do much dance stuff, but i do get a lot of mixes with wonky sub/low end. sometimes really wonky. a lot of times i end up with some combination of:

high pass somewhere between 16 and 40
low shelf somewhere under 100
bell cut between 100-200

for stuff where one bass note jumps out, a dynamic eq can be really helpful. i use voxengo gliss. i keep the p-bass handy and just figure out the note. sometimes the problem is more with the first harmonic than the fundamental. 

G'day. I had a dance track come in this week that I really fought with. Couldn't get the bottom end right no matter what I did. Anyone got any tips for good sub and low control or anyone want to private message me and I'll send you a snippet to listen too to give me some tips. I did low shelf eq before compression. Tried to clean some of the mid range mud. But it just always felt a little bit out of control. And it also resonated on just one or two notes of the bass line. So at time it felt good then at times not.

-domc_mastering

My first thought would be to shelve it down below 100Hz if it's uniform and then compress just to tighten up the bottom. If it's blowing the door open, you might need to use one band of a multiband. 

"times it felt good and at times not"... hate to say it but that probably means some sort of multi band action needed unless you start really getting tweaky with narrow cuts on boomy notes and then boosting the whole register back up... it would get just as weird / phasey in those cases most of the time.
I would try a weiss DS1 if you had one around on the M signal, or you could also try the sonnox suppressor which is pretty good on deep bass as well.  If you want to drive yourself nuts you can use a couple instances of sonnox in high res mode and go after specific notes or registers.  Turn the "auto" mode off and set the threshold by hand.  (always).   Already mentioned but check the area between 100-200, that's a jumpy zone that will make car systems, etc. fart out if there's a nasty resonance there. Waves LMB by waves is just OK on bass to my ears but will work in a pinch.  Use as little multi band as possible, more like a limiter than a compressor, set your release times long enough that you don't induce more modulation or distortion on the releases.  After you "fix" the problems (hopefully)... go back to toggling the HPF and see if it's still needed, and play with the shelving again.

That's my take... I'm sure there are other ways to skin the cat.

Nicholas, Dom is speaking from a Mastering perspective; you are talking from a mixing perspective.

-compasspnt

only to be sobered again by the actual outcome.

I'm on board with multiband compression. Even if it seems like the problem is below 200Hz or so try setting the crossover much higher. Get the multiband controlling the low end a a whole. Then you will hear the lumps and holes more clearly. Then do the rest with EQ. Often it was probably a monitoring problem at mix with some genuine problems thrown in. Too much bass with not enough low midrange except for a narrow area of too much, or something along those lines.

Or possibly "spot compress" or EQ only at the offending points in time ?

 In mixing, an unruly flabby indistinct bass track a tip that I acquired recently (forget the source) is to do a narrow cut around 200-215hz and I must say it works like a charm... May or may not be useful to you in this (but may be useful to others reading this before they send in for mastering)

EDIT:  Paul was posting while I was typing.. please don't construe my post as offering alternatives to his!

If you can use AU plug-ins, and you can split the bands, on the lowest band...

Airwindows has a couple of pretty useful "bass processing" softunits.

Process, then mix back in.

If it's really that out of control, I'd suggest a remix.

Many dance producers have trouble with the subs and kick punch- or getting the sub to sit below the kick, or the kick below the sub, depending on the style of music. There can only really be one main sound occupying the sub region, either the kick or the bass, not both. If they are out of control this will dominate the entire frequency spectrum. Multiband may help but it may be at the expense of low end punch.

I ended up going with a single band from a multiband with a freq up higher around 200hz as well as some shelving and cut offs.  I looked at sonnox surpressor (i liked it).  The client ended up going with a master from the guy they recorded it from.. oh well cant win em all.  the other master is a lot punchier in the kick drum but I still dont like the sub or bottom end in the version he went with. If you want to listen the track is called Silhouette
found here http://morettiproduced.com/.  Thanks heaps for all the suggestions.

  Get the multiband controlling the low end as a whole. Then you will hear the lumps and holes more clearly. Then do the rest with EQ.
-gold

I think as benfeggans mentioned... what I'm working with has standing wave mush/clash from ill defined kick and bass mixing. It sounds like both the kick and bass are mashed in the subs.

Paul... or anyone...when you say 'do the rest with EQ'... is the EQ pre or post the MB?
Am I looking at taming the notes that leap out... and/or, attempting to bring the buried notes out?

Thanks.

Paul... or anyone...when you say 'do the rest with EQ'... is the EQ pre or post the MB?
Am I looking at taming the notes that leap out... and/or, attempting to bring the buried notes out?

-iris

I meant it as an approach to the problem rather than a prescription for a solution. Not all multibands are crated equal. Most that I've tried suck. If you don't have a good one it's time to go to plan B. Other than that try it in either order and see which works best for you.

Thanks. I seem to have developed a preference for the Waves LinMB.
This is a great exercise. I have another project with similar issues up next.

My respect for skilled ME's grows daily.

Thanks. I seem to have developed a preference for the Waves LinMB.

-iris

That's one that I think sucks. I played with that thing for a couple of hours once and got nothing remotely useable. Others like it and use it. Go figure. I like most of the TC Electronics ones I've tried. I like Flux Alchemist and the Maselec MLA3. The last two are the ones I use.

Am I looking at taming the notes that leap out... and/or, attempting to bring the buried notes out?

-iris

Unless you have very accurate monitoring in a very good space I would be very slow to notch or boost certain notes.  In all likelihood some of what you are hearing is inaccuracies in your monitoring and room, not to mention that forensic EQ like that is somewhat soul destroying and detaches you from hearing the whole picture.