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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,169 Member Since:04/02/2011

#21 [url]

Nov 1 16 5:34 PM

how far is the vinyl siding off the outer plywood?

If it's spaced away at all, you run into the danger of setting up a triple-leaf system by adding drywall to the interior wall, which-- acousticians who know more than me should chime in, but-- is a no-no if the goal is to prevent transmission from outside to inside.

brad allen williams

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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,494 Member Since:27/01/2011

#22 [url]

Nov 1 16 7:41 PM

morespaceecho wrote:
yeah i mean the building right now is just studs, plywood and vinyl siding, there's nothing to it. 

 

That's a feature. Before doing anything I'd put up the speakers, hang some packing blankets on the wall and listern. You may have trouble beating that.  

I like listening loud. Maybe 95dB is a little much. Definately 90-93dB.

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morespaceecho

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Posts: 2,243 Member Since:29/01/2011

#23 [url]

Nov 1 16 7:59 PM

oh it's a feature for sure! before i do what you suggest i'm gonna have to get some heat going cause at the moment our closing date is dec 30th. the house is in rhode island, it's gonna be arctic in there! there is the wood stove....not really sure if that's gonna be able to stay though.

brad, i assume the vinyl siding is right up against the plywood, because how else would you do it? even if not i don't think it's even thick enough to really constitute a proper leaf.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,243 Member Since:29/01/2011

#26 [url]

Nov 5 16 11:53 AM

had the home inspection yesterday, passed with flying colors as we expected. 

and the studio space passed the handclap test, which as we know, is all the acoustic testing one needs to do. 

cutting all the drywall into strips for that whole room is going to be Thee Height Of Tedium...

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,243 Member Since:29/01/2011

#29 [url]

Nov 5 16 7:42 PM

the house isn't ours yet so i've only been in there for about 15 minutes so far, so i dunno. as far as i can tell, no. it seems fine. 

however, after dealing with a seriously leaky roof here a few years back, i would like to have precisely zero problems with water of any kind in the new space.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,169 Member Since:04/02/2011

#32 [url]

Nov 5 16 8:13 PM

normally it's used in bathrooms and the like. Unless your room is leaky, I'm not sure I personally would worry much about mold in your space.

brad allen williams

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skidmorebay

Tin Man

Posts: 19 Member Since:07/08/2015

#33 [url]

Nov 8 16 1:15 PM

I just came across this interesting topic. I've had to learn a lot about building envelope strategies and moisture mitigation from designing and building our house in Alaska. I scanned this thread but probably missed some details - one of the biggest concerns with moisture/mold mitigation is your location. 

Building Science and building envelope design are pretty deep topics, but in short, if it is cold in the wintertime, moisture in the air inside will travel through your insulation and contact your outer plywood sheathing. If it is very cold, and you have a lot of insulation, the moisture will tend to condensate on the cold plywood. If it is cold outside but you don't have a lot of insulation the heat from the room will heat the plywood itself enough to keep it from getting cold enough for moisture to condense on (avoiding mold, but costing more money to heat!). 

One strategy is to use a 6mil plastic vapor barrier (VERY carefully detailed to avoid leakage) on the inside of the room under the sheet rock to keep moisture from being able to penetrate the wall cavity. This is effective, but of course acoustically it means that your fluffy insulation is not longer absorption for your room, because the plastic (and sheet rock on top of it) reflect sound. Some moisture inevitably still makes it into the wall, but it will migrate slowly to the outside through the plywood and water resistant barrier (i.e. Tyvek or tar paper) and diffuse into the air. Moisture in wall cavities tends to build up in the winter, but moves faster in the summer so in the end the wall doesn't stay wet long enough to cause mold or rot.
An alternative strategy is to forego the vapor barrier entirely. With this approach, moisture that condenses on the cold outer skin of the building will migrate to the warm, dry interior, where it is hopefully exhausted through an HVAC system or just from opening and closing doors and windows. This method requires a constant heat source inside in the winter (the reason we didn't go this route in our wood-heated house in Alaska). 
Concrete floors are problematic because they can become moisture factories if they stay relatively cold, so that your warm interior air is always forming condensation on it like air does on a cold can of soda, etc. One can put foam and then wood on the floor to insulate it, or heat it well enough that the slab eventually warms up. This is why basements smell musty - condensation on the chronically colder concrete. 
If you are going to try to avoid a hard interior skin entirely, you would need to be thinking about helping the moisture to dry to the inside. Mold resistant sheet rock is for bathrooms, greenhouses, etc., and isn't in itself a complete vapor barrier I believe. 

In hot climates where air conditioning is always used this whole thing is basically reversed. The vapor barrier goes on the warm side, whether that's the inside or the outside. 

It's really, really important to get this right for the longevity of the building and health of its occupants. Probably the best thing you can do is to buy some time from a local contractor to find out how this is handled in your area typically (an addage is that you want to find a contractor who has gray hair), or talk to an architect who designs for the local market. 

Good luck. I'm looking to build a room about that size in the next year or two. It will be interesting to see how things go for you.
JS

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,169 Member Since:04/02/2011

#35 [url]

Nov 8 16 4:36 PM

a plastic vapor barrier would only mitigate the absorption of your insulation at considerably high frequencies. Lower frequencies will pass right through as if it weren't there.

brad allen williams

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podgorny

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,312 Member Since:27/01/2011

#36 [url]

Nov 8 16 9:00 PM

Morespace,
Please hire an acoustician. Even if only as a consultant to give you a basic idea of what you NEED to do (as opposed to having them do a full design, though that would be a great idea).
There are many ways to approach this space, and I'm not seeing a whole lot of advice here that I agree with. You own this place, and I assume you're planning on staying here a while. Make sure you're considering all the angles.

Vapor barrier is a necessity. Don't even think about not using it or using mold-resistant drywall in its place. And vinyl siding's mass and air-tightness are low enough to be a non-issue, at least with regard to triple-leaf systems.

Kyle Mann :: www.kylemann.com

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,243 Member Since:29/01/2011

#37 [url]

Nov 9 16 1:22 PM

yeah speaking of acousticians i was really hoping thomas would chime in here. but i think he might be just a little bit busy!

but i put a post up at john sayer's forum and i'm getting some solid advice there. i'm actually not too worried about the acoustics, i think i have a pretty good handle on what i need to do to make a nice sounding room. it's just some of the construction stuff i'm not so sure about.  my experience is limited to building the studio here and doing renovations on the rest of the loft over the years.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,243 Member Since:29/01/2011

#39 [url]

Nov 10 16 11:47 AM

yeah....you guys will all laugh at me, but my budget for this whole thing is 10k. so no bigger b&w's for little morespace right now.

i don't think there's gonna be any moisture problems there, it was just something a friend mentioned, and as my construction experience is limited to inside my loft here, it was something i wanted to ask about. seems like it's going to be fine. 

pressure treated wood as the bottom plate is an example of my limited experience. i didn't know that until the other day when i was researching. this is the sort of stuff i want to make sure i do right. hence me asking scattershot, possibly dumb questions as i sort all this out.

i was just gonna put in a regular old hardwood floor.

have MHoA and BILTP!

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,494 Member Since:27/01/2011

#40 [url]

Nov 10 16 1:01 PM

morespaceecho wrote:
yeah....you guys will all laugh at me, but my budget for this whole thing is 10k. so no bigger b&w's for little morespace right now.

 

Not me. Hire an acoustician is obviously ideal. I assumed correctly you didn't have the $150k-200k to make that happen. I don't know much about construction either. I offer no advice on construction to mitigate mold.

The garden shed I made into a living space was constructed in a similar manner to your structure. I used Roxul Safe and Sound between the studs and used 1/4" birch ply for the walls. I left air gaps between the sheets of ply. For the ceiling I used blue board and covered it with fiberglass fabric then covered with the birch ply.  I also left air gaps in the ceiling. I figured with air flow mold would have trouble growing. It's very wet where the cabin is so I'll see. I have places where I can keep any eye on it.

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