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jesse decarlo

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,571 Member Since:24/03/2013

#41 [url]

Feb 9 17 11:33 PM

I have a lot of tracks coming my way this year with live-recorded UST piezos... this ToneDexter thing might really improve my life.

I bet you're already working on a plugin version, right? (Hint)

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James May

Tin Man

Posts: 14 Member Since:09/02/2017

#42 [url]

Feb 10 17 12:19 PM

seth wrote:
Thanks James. This looks like a really cool device and something I could use.

In the situation I envision, mixing tracks I don't record, is there any reason I couldn't use a track of any beautifully recorded acoustic guitar as the WaveMap?

If I understand your questions, that wouldn't work. In order to train ToneDexter with recorded tracks, you would need to use two tracks that were recorded simultaneusly (same performance), one miked and the other DI.

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,684 Member Since:26/01/2011

#43 [url]

Feb 10 17 12:27 PM

I see, that makes sense. So if I can get the client to bring over the guitar once, I can record a track of anything with the pickup and a mic, then use that to create and store a WaveMap. I could then use that WaveMap to process the rest of the guitar tracks on the album cut with that guitar? I realize that's not your anticipated use of the device, and I feel a little like I'm trying to order off the menu in a restaurant by asking you to say your device will do something it wasn't designed for. So I'm not asking you to promise me it will work the way I want. But that would be the most valuable use for me personally. As Jesse said, "hint....hint...."

When will it be available, BTW?

Last Edited By: seth Feb 10 17 12:34 PM. Edited 1 time.

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chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,750 Member Since:30/01/2011

#44 [url]

Feb 10 17 12:58 PM

I often record a guitar with a mic and a DI. I have taken the DI track and re-amped it with different mic placements and different mics. Could this be used in a re-amp example?

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James May

Tin Man

Posts: 14 Member Since:09/02/2017

#45 [url]

Feb 10 17 1:17 PM

seth wrote:
I see, that makes sense. So if I can get the client to bring over the guitar once, I can record a track of anything with the pickup and a mic, then use that to create and store a WaveMap. I could then use that WaveMap to process the rest of the guitar tracks on the album cut with that guitar? ...

When will it be available, BTW?


 

Yes, now you've got it. If you have access to the guitar, you can either create the WaveMap from a live training session (takes about a minute) or from training off a pair of prerecorded tracks. But once you've got the WaveMap for that instrument stored in the box, you can use it on any subsequent recorded DI tracks and get great results. And in case it isn't obvious, ToneDexter is not just for guitar, but also mando, violin, uke, banjo, etc. We are planning to support acoustic bass with a future software release. Same concepts exactly for bass, but slightly different software.
It will be shipping early April.

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James May

Tin Man

Posts: 14 Member Since:09/02/2017

#46 [url]

Feb 10 17 1:37 PM

chance wrote:
I often record a guitar with a mic and a DI. I have taken the DI track and re-amped it with different mic placements and different mics. Could this be used in a re-amp example?

Yes, absolutely, although for the sake of clarity, I would not call it re-amping. Perhaps re-mapping? Once you have a recorded DI track, you can try out different WaveMaps on it after the fact, assuming you have access to the instrument to create different WaveMaps. These different WaveMaps could have different mics and/or mic positions. Another advantage of this general approach is to allow the band to play live in the studio, with just the DI input being recorded (for minimal leak), and then turning that DI signal into something that sounds like a real instrument through a mic later.

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chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,750 Member Since:30/01/2011

#47 [url]

Feb 10 17 2:04 PM

James May wrote:

chance wrote:
I often record a guitar with a mic and a DI. I have taken the DI track and re-amped it with different mic placements and different mics. Could this be used in a re-amp example?

Yes, absolutely, although for the sake of clarity, I would not call it re-amping. Perhaps re-mapping? Once you have a recorded DI track, you can try out different WaveMaps on it after the fact, assuming you have access to the instrument to create different WaveMaps. These different WaveMaps could have different mics and/or mic positions. Another advantage of this general approach is to allow the band to play live in the studio, with just the DI input being recorded (for minimal leak), and then turning that DI signal into something that sounds like a real instrument through a mic later.

Hmm. At first I got excited, but am a little confused. The already recorded DI track is "essentially" the same signal as what came out of the guitar before the amp. When I re-amp, it allows me to comfortably try different mics, placement, and different amps, then re-record on to another track. Since the recorded DI track is "essentially" the same signal as what came out of the guitar, why would you need to have access to the guitar again? There is something I am missing here

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

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James May

Tin Man

Posts: 14 Member Since:09/02/2017

#48 [url]

Feb 10 17 2:49 PM

chance wrote:

James May wrote:

chance wrote:
I often record a guitar with a mic and a DI. I have taken the DI track and re-amped it with different mic placements and different mics. Could this be used in a re-amp example?

Yes, absolutely, although for the sake of clarity, I would not call it re-amping. Perhaps re-mapping? Once you have a recorded DI track, you can try out different WaveMaps on it after the fact, assuming you have access to the instrument to create different WaveMaps. These different WaveMaps could have different mics and/or mic positions. Another advantage of this general approach is to allow the band to play live in the studio, with just the DI input being recorded (for minimal leak), and then turning that DI signal into something that sounds like a real instrument through a mic later.

Hmm. At first I got excited, but am a little confused. The already recorded DI track is "essentially" the same signal as what came out of the guitar before the amp. When I re-amp, it allows me to comfortably try different mics, placement, and different amps, then re-record on to another track. Since the recorded DI track is "essentially" the same signal as what came out of the guitar, why would you need to have access to the guitar again? There is something I am missing here

I think we may be getting tripped up on terminology. Yes, the recorded DI is effectively the same as the live pickup signal, assuming a clean DI box was used to record it. You only need access to the guitar to create new WaveMaps with ToneDexter's training algorithm. If you've already created the WaveMap(s) beforehand, you don't need further access to the instrument. Or, if you've recorded a DI track and a mic track simultaneously, you can create a single WaveMap from that without access to the guitar. I hope that's clearer.

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Mike Rivers

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,541 Member Since:13/10/2012

#49 [url]

Feb 10 17 3:48 PM

chance wrote:
Hmm. At first I got excited, but am a little confused. The already recorded DI track is "essentially" the same signal as what came out of the guitar before the amp. When I re-amp, it allows me to comfortably try different mics, placement, and different amps, then re-record on to another track. Since the recorded DI track is "essentially" the same signal as what came out of the guitar, why would you need to have access to the guitar again? There is something I am missing here


First off, let's be sure you're in the right ballpark. The ToneDexter is, as far as I know, intended to work with acoustic guitars that have a built-in piezo pickup. In principle, it could work with an electric guitar or an acoustic guitar with a magnetic pickup, but the software isn't designed for that kind of sound. When most of us think of re-amping, it's to take the DI-recorded output of an electric guitar's pickup, play that back into a guitar amplifier or six, maybe through an effect or eight, put a mic or ten on the amplifier(s), and record that.

With the ToneDexter, if you had an acoustic guitar with a piezo pickup and you recorded it on two tracks, one direct from the pickup and the other from a mic on the guitar chosen and set up so you think the sound from the mic is pretty darn good, you could use those two tracks to create a wave map and use that to de-quack the pickup track.

To do what I think you'd like to do, you'd want to make a few different wave maps so you could choose which one gives you the best sound for a particular track. And to do that, you'd need to have recorded not just two tracks of the guitar, but one with the pickup and a few others with assorted mics in different positions. And if you're going to do that, you might as well just pick the mic track that sounds best on the song, or combine them, and maybe add in a little of the pickup.

As I see it, you'd get the most mileage from the ToneDexter for live playing, or for easily recording a good sounding track of a guitar that you've mapped. You could have a couple of maps for your guitar, another one for your mandolin, another one for your uke, and use them when you're playing live. It's a multi-purpose signal processor, but not a general purpose one.



For a good time, call mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

Last Edited By: Mike Rivers Feb 10 17 3:50 PM. Edited 1 time.

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James May

Tin Man

Posts: 14 Member Since:09/02/2017

#51 [url]

Feb 10 17 4:12 PM

mikerivers wrote:

chance wrote:
Hmm. At first I got excited, but am a little confused. The already recorded DI track is "essentially" the same signal as what came out of the guitar before the amp. When I re-amp, it allows me to comfortably try different mics, placement, and different amps, then re-record on to another track. Since the recorded DI track is "essentially" the same signal as what came out of the guitar, why would you need to have access to the guitar again? There is something I am missing here


First off, let's be sure you're in the right ballpark. The ToneDexter is, as far as I know, intended to work with acoustic guitars that have a built-in piezo pickup. In principle, it could work with an electric guitar or an acoustic guitar with a magnetic pickup, but the software isn't designed for that kind of sound. When most of us think of re-amping, it's to take the DI-recorded output of an electric guitar's pickup, play that back into a guitar amplifier or six, maybe through an effect or eight, put a mic or ten on the amplifier(s), and record that.

With the ToneDexter, if you had an acoustic guitar with a piezo pickup and you recorded it on two tracks, one direct from the pickup and the other from a mic on the guitar chosen and set up so you think the sound from the mic is pretty darn good, you could use those two tracks to create a wave map and use that to de-quack the pickup track.

To do what I think you'd like to do, you'd want to make a few different wave maps so you could choose which one gives you the best sound for a particular track. And to do that, you'd need to have recorded not just two tracks of the guitar, but one with the pickup and a few others with assorted mics in different positions. And if you're going to do that, you might as well just pick the mic track that sounds best on the song, or combine them, and maybe add in a little of the pickup.

As I see it, you'd get the most mileage from the ToneDexter for live playing, or for easily recording a good sounding track of a guitar that you've mapped. You could have a couple of maps for your guitar, another one for your mandolin, another one for your uke, and use them when you're playing live. It's a multi-purpose signal processor, but not a general purpose one.

Well said Mike.

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James May

Tin Man

Posts: 14 Member Since:09/02/2017

#52 [url]

Feb 10 17 4:14 PM

compasspnt wrote:
Works for strumming, finger picking, everything?

Yes. And when training, it's not picky about how you play it or what you play.

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dcollins

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,373 Member Since:27/01/2011

#54 [url]

Feb 12 17 2:00 AM

James May wrote:
weedywet wrote:
Is that much different from the Fishman Aura?

Yes it's different. I just now became aware of this thread, so I'm jumping in to answer questions.

We allow the user to create a custom WaveMap (our term for our learning process) for their own particular instrument/pickup combination using the type and position of mic they choose. Because it uses their particulars, and because our process is as good as it is, the results are truly stunning. BTW, our patent for the learning process we developed was just granted.
Fwiw, I think this is an interesting, and good-sounding, product.  Many moons ago I designed some electronics for the Sunrise acoustic pickup and am definitely sensitive to the bad sound of bridge transducers.  I think the Tonedexter has great potential.

DC 

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maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,209 Member Since:23/01/2011

#55 [url]

Feb 12 17 10:35 AM

dcollins wrote:
...and am definitely sensitive to the bad sound of bridge transducers....

Thank you.  People would come home from concerts and say, "Wasn't that a great acoustic guitar sound?" and I'd say to myself, "Really--you like that too-bright, plastic-y sound?".  

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James May

Tin Man

Posts: 14 Member Since:09/02/2017

#56 [url]

Apr 18 17 6:45 PM

We are now shipping ToneDexters, which is a milestone for us and a long time in the making! At the moment we have stock. It can be ordered from our site.

The more we test it, with a wider and wider cross section of pickup types and instruments, the more we believe it will make a positive difference.

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