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waltzmastering

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Posts: 1,664 Member Since:02/02/2011

#41 [url]

Mar 5 17 11:03 AM

gtoledo3 wrote:
The idea that a Unidyne III now sells for around 300 bucks seems patently absurd.


 

Not to sidetrack too much, but suprised that Uni 3's are going for those prices.
About 20 years ago, I bought a bunch of old mics from a radio station that was going to toss them. 
Sorta just threw it in storage and forgot about them. There's a few uni's,
some Sennheiser shotguns, and a few ribbons, including this Shure 315.
image

Last Edited By: waltzmastering Mar 5 17 6:25 PM. Edited 1 time.

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jesse decarlo

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#42 [url]

Mar 6 17 12:07 PM

soapfoot wrote:
Interestingly, the SM57 and SM7 share very much.

The SM7 adds a humbucking coil to reduce noise, and a larger air volume behind the Unidyne III moving coil element (which both mics share) to extend low-frequency response a little.

And of course the grille is further away from the element, meaning that you can't position it as close to the source as you can an SM57.

As far as I know, that's it. They DO sound different, don't get me wrong. But very much in the same "family" to me.

I was never quite able to relate to the manner in which the old TapeOp/indie/DIYcrowd love to tout the the SM7, and love to hate the SM57. They're almost the same thing! The SM7 was basically designed to be an "improved" SM57 for more demanding broadcast applications, and the two perform very similarly. To me it always defied logic a little, or at least seemed mighty hyperbolic-- like if I were to say a MIM telecaster barely qualified as a guitar, but that an American Standard telecaster were my favorite. Maybe there's something I'm missing!

I think the SM7 is pretty cool. I think the SM57 is pretty cool. They're actually kind of similar. I could understand liking the SM7 a little bit more for some stuff, since it's basically an "improved" SM57. I also personally prefer a good SM57 for some things, like placing right up on the grille of a Marshall cabinet in tandem with an MD421.

IMO/IMO/YMMV etc.

I guess to me, even if the capsule is the same for the SM57 and SM7 (and I have never been 100% sure it really is identical, because the replacement cartridge assembly is different for each mic), there are important differences. One mic is transformer coupled and the other isn't, the capsules are implemented differently, and the cases are radically different... that adds up to a substantial distinction in my mind. It actually goes slightly against my own set of preconceived notions to prefer the SM7, because most of the time I prefer "audio things" with transformers.

Also there are plenty of Indie/DIY folks who are all about the SM57, aren't there?

Anyway, I'm not saying the 57 is no good - I just don't usually love it when I compare it to other options for a given application, but of course people use 57s to make records that I DO love, all day long. There are many paths to good sound.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,404 Member Since:04/02/2011

#43 [url]

Mar 6 17 12:54 PM

Yeah, Jesse, I'm sure plenty of indie-minded folks do like the SM57. I was speaking more about the quasi-religious anti-SM57 fervor that trails in the wake of one particular outspoken anti-producer from Chicago. But that has died down somewhat in the last ten years or so, for sure.

brad allen williams

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mario i

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,581 Member Since:28/01/2011

#44 [url]

Mar 6 17 4:25 PM

maarvold wrote:

soapfoot wrote:
Interestingly, the SM57 and SM7 share very much.

The SM7 adds a humbucking coil to reduce noise, and a larger air volume behind the Unidyne III moving coil element (which both mics share) to extend low-frequency response a little.

And of course the grille is further away from the element, meaning that you can't position it as close to the source as you can an SM57.

As far as I know, that's it. They DO sound different, don't get me wrong. But very much in the same "family" to me.

I was never quite able to relate to the manner in which the old TapeOp/indie/DIYcrowd love to tout the the SM7, and love to hate the SM57. They're almost the same thing! The SM7 was basically designed to be an "improved" SM57 for more demanding broadcast applications, and the two perform very similarly. To me it always defied logic a little, or at least seemed mighty hyperbolic-- like if I were to say a MIM telecaster barely qualified as a guitar, but that an American Standard telecaster were my favorite. Maybe there's something I'm missing!

I think the SM7 is pretty cool. I think the SM57 is pretty cool. They're actually kind of similar. I could understand liking the SM7 a little bit more for some stuff, since it's basically an "improved" SM57. I also personally prefer a good SM57 for some things, like placing right up on the grille of a Marshall cabinet in tandem with an MD421.

IMO/IMO/YMMV etc.

 
I've been using SM7 on kick for years though, but wouldn't use a 57 there.  Also. my Beta 52 (and D112) just sit in the drawer.  

Ha! I remember John Whynot using a SM57 with a AKG B-ULS 414 on Bass Drum hole ! ;-)
SM57 angled about 30 degrees toward the beater, and the 414 on centre. His stuff sounded really good.

To each his own.

iirc, Terry liked the D-112. (and Neumann Fet47 of course) ;-)

I'm not crazy about the Beta 52, but prefer it way over the Beta 91 which is useless for live sound imho...

In studio I'm often using a particular D-12 (of 3 to choose from) along with an original Senn e602 (not the ii)...
or a Diy Fet 47 insprired mic...

About to get an EV RE20 from my friend who's the EV rep here to try out.

I've learned by now it all depends on musical taste, song, drummer's style, drums, etc...

M
 

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maarvold

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Posts: 3,145 Member Since:23/01/2011

#45 [url]

Mar 7 17 9:09 PM

mario i wrote:

maarvold wrote:
I've been using SM7 on kick for years though, but wouldn't use a 57 there.  
 

Ha! I remember John Whynot using a SM57 with a AKG B-ULS 414 on Bass Drum hole ! ;-)
SM57 angled about 30 degrees toward the beater, and the 414 on centre. His stuff sounded really good.

 
I just did something very similar because another engineer started the project and I wanted to be consistent, since he was mixing it.  I would use an SM7 alone (and mostly do), but wouldn't have used the 57 without the 414, unless it sounded amazing--then I wouldn't have cared what it was.  But we just recalled his setup and started carving.  It sounded great btw--closer to what I like than my Beta 52 would have been... probably my D112 as well.  

Last Edited By: maarvold Mar 7 17 9:12 PM. Edited 1 time.

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mario i

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#46 [url]

Mar 7 17 10:04 PM

:)

You are correct, 57 on it's own for BD not great.
Had to do it for live last year...... ooofff yuck.
Could not get get it to work right. But was in a pinch...

I'm still a little weary about putting one of my 414's on BD hole!

M

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,404 Member Since:04/02/2011

#48 [url]

Mar 8 17 9:30 AM

As far as moving coil dynamics on bass drum, I'm a big fan of the Beyerdynamic M88. For more "hyped" or big sounds I'm a fan of the Sennheiser e602 (original). Both work great in conjunction with a U47 FET on the outside.

Sometimes when the bass drum is small and the music is quiet, a 421 can even be cool.

I've never yet found the SM7 to be to my personal taste on bass drum, BUT that's just a personal taste thing.

brad allen williams

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waltzmastering

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Posts: 1,664 Member Since:02/02/2011

#49 [url]

Mar 8 17 9:35 AM

mario i wrote:
.

I'm still a little weary about putting one of my 414's on BD hole!

M

 

Here's some good info I found regarding high spl and mic sensitivity,
http://www.neumann.com/forums/view.php?bn=neumann_micrec&key=1222334003&v=f 

I had to do a sanity check, because I've used an M149 on the outside of a kick
on occasion and 414's seem pretty rugged.  I used them on horns, Marshalls and rack & floor toms
and think there'd be no problem on a kick. gl

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maarvold

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Posts: 3,145 Member Since:23/01/2011

#50 [url]

Mar 8 17 9:37 AM

seth wrote:
Hey Mike, you prefer an SM7 to an RE20 or a D12 for bass drum? I'll have to try it...

In all honesty, it's been decades since I used an RE20 on kick.  And D12's are getting so rare, I don't want to even try one because--if I like it--then I'll have to find one worth buying (which seems like it might be even more of a challenge than finding my Wolfbox transformer, which was EXTREMELY challenging).  

What I love about SM7 is:1. it's got guts and power, 2. it's got point, but reasonable, 'unclicky' point (unlike Beta 52 and--to a lesser extent--D112 which have a lot).  The only thing that is tricky is placing it because it's kind of big and kind of heavy.  But that's never stopped me from using it.  

Continuing to veer off topic for a moment longer, has anyone tried the (formerly Crowley & Tripp) Shure ribbon mics on kick?  I would be especially interested in reports about the KSM353/ED.  I have a feeling it's killer, but it's expensive... then again, so is a 47FET.  

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waltzmastering

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#51 [url]

Mar 8 17 10:53 AM

maarvold wrote:

 


Continuing to veer off topic for a moment longer, has anyone tried the (formerly Crowley & Tripp) Shure ribbon mics on kick? 

They came into the studio to let us audition some of their mics when they first came out, before they sold to Shure.They were a local company and very good mics, but don't remember a lot, even though an assistant bought one.
 For piano, also used to tape 2 pzm's to the lid, then closed it for isolation for live off the floor stuff.  Worked well
 2 _421s were fave kick mics in and out

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jesse decarlo

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Posts: 1,543 Member Since:24/03/2013

#52 [url]

Mar 8 17 11:05 AM

I think I must be weird but I haven't been able to get what I want out of any moving-coil dynamic on kick drum, having tried RE20, SM7, Beta52, and D112. I feel like I could make the first two in that list work if any of the places I have been tracking had decent hardware EQ, but they don't. Condenser mics are making me happier lately for kick.

Last Edited By: jesse decarlo Mar 8 17 11:20 AM. Edited 1 time.

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jaykadis

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Posts: 2,431 Member Since:24/01/2011

#53 [url]

Mar 8 17 11:23 AM

soapfoot wrote:

Sometimes when the bass drum is small and the music is quiet, a 421 can even be cool.

 

Just found that out. We recently got a Gretsch Catalina Club set with an 18" bass drum for the studio and tried several mics - RE-20, ND-868 and the MD-421 won out by far. Never tried it before.

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mario i

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Posts: 1,581 Member Since:28/01/2011

#54 [url]

Mar 8 17 12:05 PM

waltzmastering wrote:

mario i wrote:
.

I'm still a little weary about putting one of my 414's on BD hole!

M


 

Here's some good info I found regarding high spl and mic sensitivity,
http://www.neumann.com/forums/view.php?bn=neumann_micrec&key=1222334003&v=f 

I had to do a sanity check, because I've used an M149 on the outside of a kick
on occasion and 414's seem pretty rugged.  I used them on horns, Marshalls and rack & floor toms
and think there'd be no problem on a kick. gl

Hihihi.... yea we're off piano mic topic... but nice to be able to talk with all of you.

Oh I know the 414's can take it... it's more just "MY" 414's in the BD hole that has me concerned. ;)
I'd probably be temped to put a foam around the mic to avoid blasts gfrom the hole. 

Then again, I've got so many other condensors which can be pressed into duty for BD.... 

M

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