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mikerivers

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,449 Member Since:13/10/2012

#21 [url]

Mar 13 17 6:50 AM

Does this mean that if a friend from another country comes to visit me, I play him a project that I'm working on and he says "Hey, could I put a bagpipe track on that? I have my instrument right here in my suitcase?" it would be considered working and he'd have just violated his tourist visa provisions?

Should I cut the power plug off my smart TV?



For a good time, call mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,044 Member Since:04/02/2011

#23 [url]

Mar 13 17 8:49 AM

mikerivers wrote:
Does this mean that if a friend from another country comes to visit me, I play him a project that I'm working on and he says "Hey, could I put a bagpipe track on that? I have my instrument right here in my suitcase?" it would be considered working and he'd have just violated his tourist visa provisions?

Should I cut the power plug off my smart TV?

Technically, it would seem the answer is now "yes."
 

brad allen williams

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,476 Member Since:26/01/2011

#24 [url]

Mar 13 17 10:26 AM

I think the more interesting question is, why were they handcuffed and taken to cells? Is that SOP? Were they being loud and disrespectful? Were the Border Agents being disrespectful? The most likely explanation to me is that the border people discovered that 90% of what they said was legit and they (the band AND their management) tried to sneak in a gig or two that paid and got caught. These border guys are not rubes - they know what's going on. I once had to ship some mic pre/EQs by air freight, which meant I had to walk them through the TSA inspection. I made copies of the brochures so they could understand what they were, but the guy looking at the X-ray machine didn't even look up and said, "recording equalizers?" I said yes. He said, "OK".

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jimlongo

Gold Finger

Posts: 595 Member Since:28/01/2011

#25 [url]

Mar 13 17 10:56 AM

As someone who has crossed the CAN/US border hundreds of times since when I was too young to remember, it is never a comfortable feeling. And i'm a citizen in both directions.

Young with my parents it was usually easy, as a teenager going to concerts was real scary (dogs, interrogations, etc.,), the easiest was as a parent (wanna smuggle something have a kid in the child seat in the back. Now with FACTA and FBAR for a dual citizen it has become scary again . . . can't even decide which passport to use.

The one rule to keep in mind is that you are in limbo, no rights whatsoever. 
 

Last Edited By: jimlongo Mar 13 17 10:58 AM. Edited 1 time.

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waltzmastering

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,585 Member Since:02/02/2011

#26 [url]

Mar 13 17 11:03 AM

Looking at a wider scope of what's happening,
I'd preface by saying that I'm not hard core, but keep an eye on the stuff…
Muhammad Ali's son Muhammad Ali's Jr. has been detained twice in the last month or so.
His problem is that his name is Muhammad..

My understanding is that the feds have told the states
to strictly enforce what's already on the books,
so if you look the part, or had dui  etc,or and are not a citizen, chances are not good..
Also, the 3 agencies (art funding) that Chuck listedthat have never really received a lot of money
are now in the cross hairs of the new admin to be axed all together. 
Strange times

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,044 Member Since:04/02/2011

#27 [url]

Mar 13 17 11:18 AM

In the scope of world history, perhaps not all that strange.

In the scope of American history, perhaps strange indeed.

brad allen williams

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mikerivers

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,449 Member Since:13/10/2012

#28 [url]

Mar 13 17 11:21 AM

seth wrote:
I once had to ship some mic pre/EQs by air freight, which meant I had to walk them through the TSA inspection. I made copies of the brochures so they could understand what they were, but the guy looking at the X-ray machine didn't even look up and said, "recording equalizers?" I said yes. He said, "OK".
 


I didn't know you had to walk air freight shipments through TSA, just baggage on the flight you're on. Learn something every day. 

Once on a trip to Japan to play music (all legit), one of my band mates ahead of me in the Customs line had a fringed leather jacket in his suitcase. The inspector looked at him, the jacket, and his guitar case, smiled and said "Ah, so. . . . Wes-tun songs" and just waved the other two of us right through.



For a good time, call mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

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ktownson

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,117 Member Since:22/01/2011

#30 [url]

Mar 13 17 12:48 PM

My experience with Israeli Customs agents was frightening, and I was traveling as an expenses-paid guest of the Israeli government. But making you uncomfortable seemed to be part of the routine. They wanted to see if you would get increasingly nervous and crack. At least three different agents grilled me with the same set of questions over a two hour period, then they would go and compare notes. Dropping the name of the Minister of Tourism, presenting her business card, or the invitation letter made no difference whatsoever. Stone cold menacing demeanor. I wasn't completely sure we were going to make the trip until the wheels of the jet left the ground.

I wonder if it hurts to have your personality surgically removed?

"Kerry fixed the stereo, and now it doesn't work." (My six-year-old sister)

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weedywet

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,774 Member Since:20/01/2011

#31 [url]

Mar 13 17 12:53 PM

waltzmastering wrote:
... but keep an eye on the stuff…
Muhammad Ali's son Muhammad Ali's Jr. has been detained twice in the last month or so.
His problem is that his name is Muhammad..


 


exactly.
it's things like that, and this incident with the band, that start to look like canaries in the coal mine.


Doug, I'm an "immigrant"* too. That doesn't mean I presume that every time an official accuses or arrests someone he must be guilty of something.


I still play, and sometimes record, all over the world... but I expect, and can almost predict, that, as the US gets more xeonophobic and makes entering more difficult and unpleasant, other countries will return the favour and make it more difficult for US citizens to enter.
this isn't good for any of us.

and let's not pretend even for a second it's "keeping you safe".
 

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,044 Member Since:04/02/2011

#32 [url]

Mar 13 17 12:58 PM

seth wrote:
I think the more interesting question is, why were they handcuffed and taken to cells? Is that SOP? Were they being loud and disrespectful? Were the Border Agents being disrespectful? The most likely explanation to me is that the border people discovered that 90% of what they said was legit and they (the band AND their management) tried to sneak in a gig or two that paid and got caught. These border guys are not rubes - they know what's going on. I once had to ship some mic pre/EQs by air freight, which meant I had to walk them through the TSA inspection. I made copies of the brochures so they could understand what they were, but the guy looking at the X-ray machine didn't even look up and said, "recording equalizers?" I said yes. He said, "OK".

That's awesome!

Once I was on tour and leaving Tel Aviv via Ben Gurion airport. I had my pedalboard with me in a hard case. One of my bandmates had some stamps on his passport that Ben Gurion security didn't like for some reason, and they started asking questions. Asked where we had played the night before... "uh... I think it was called... uh..." asked where we were playing next "uh... shoot... um... see we get these emails from management at the start of the day with that day's itinerary on them, and we don't really look too far ahea..." then they separated us for additional questioning.

Of course they asked to see inside my pedalboard case, and these ladies who were working security began the process of trying to figure out if I were actually a musician. "What does this one do?" "Well, that's a distortion pedal" "What does it sound like?" "Well, it makes a sort of crunchy or fuzzy sound." "I see. What's this one?" "That's a delay pedal, it makes an echo sound." "Mmm Hmm. What about this one?" "That's a volume pedal, it's just a volume control I manipulate with my foot..." and on and on and on. Then they begun asking me about my music, where all I had traveled on tour. "Do you have any of your own music on your laptop there that you could play for us?"

It was all just to see if they could catch me off guard, or to look for poker tells, I'm sure. But it was entertaining nonetheless. I joked with my wife that it felt very unfamiliar to have someone show such an interest in my gear and my music.

brad allen williams

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jaykadis

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Posts: 2,392 Member Since:24/01/2011

#33 [url]

Mar 13 17 1:13 PM

It's also the TSA protecting "their phony-baloney jobs" after being shown to be frighteningly incompetent with little consequence fortunately. I grew up in Europe in the early sixties and remember vacations driving through the parts of Europe we could access. Borders were heavily guarded with armed soldiers and plenty of checking of papers. When we went back to Europe in the nineties, we drove from France to Germany and couldn't exactly tell where the border was. Let's not go back to the old ways.

Last Edited By: jaykadis Mar 13 17 1:17 PM. Edited 1 time.

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chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,539 Member Since:30/01/2011

#34 [url]

Mar 13 17 1:16 PM

mikerivers wrote:

seth wrote:
I once had to ship some mic pre/EQs by air freight, which meant I had to walk them through the TSA inspection. I made copies of the brochures so they could understand what they were, but the guy looking at the X-ray machine didn't even look up and said, "recording equalizers?" I said yes. He said, "OK".

 


I didn't know you had to walk air freight shipments through TSA, just baggage on the flight you're on. Learn something every day. 

Once on a trip to Japan to play music (all legit), one of my band mates ahead of me in the Customs line had a fringed leather jacket in his suitcase. The inspector looked at him, the jacket, and his guitar case, smiled and said "Ah, so. . . . Wes-tun songs" and just waved the other two of us right through.

Had gigs in Japan 9 times 1971 to 79. The gigs were for 10 weeks each year. 10 weeks were a requirement for economic reasons for the club owner because he paid our traveling expenses. They also provided us with apartments. (they called them mansions) There wasn't a week that went by, that while we were at the gig, our apartments were searched. They tried to not be obvious, but we all knew, because of things they forgot like closing a cabinet door, or a bedspread out of place, but nothing was ever stolen. An american GI stationed in Japan had a girlfriend who was hitting on me, but I had no interest in her, but one night walking home after the gig, I was assulted by some GI's and they stole my passport. I reported it, and to my surprise, I got arrested. Not knowing what was happenning, our manager called the club owner to translate, and if I wanted out of jail, I was required to sign a statement saying "I was NOT assulted, and I lost my passport" I did as instructed and was released. Very strange. It had something to do with keeping the American/Japan records clean. We did a TV show on Channel 8 in Shingicu which was the equivelent to our Tonight show, and when we left Japan, going through customs, They ignored our belongings and just wanted autographs LOL Another time playing in Mexico City, I took a picture of a beautiful building. Immeadiately the police came up to me, opened my camera (Nikon f2n 35mm film) and exposed all the film. Again I was stunned. What did I do wrong? As it turned out, standing in front of that building was a pimp with his hookers and the police were in business with the pimp. The cop told me "THIS IS MEXICO NOT USA! NO PICTURES"
A thought that just came to mind was our first trip to Japan we were standing in front of the Akasaka Tokyo hotel with the club owner waiting for the other limos from the airport that had the rest of our group. An old man whose face was all purple on the left side walked by and the club owner noticed that we saw him. He looked at us and said "Bomb"! We all knew what bomb he was referring to. Very sobering.

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

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owlander

Gold Finger

Posts: 993 Member Since:27/01/2011

#35 [url]

Mar 13 17 3:00 PM

"When a traveler is deemed inadmissible, CBP makes every effort to return the traveler without delay. CBP does not have an overnight detention facility at the airport. Therefore, it is standard procedure for any traveler who is deemed inadmissible and is awaiting return travel to be taken to a detention center until return travel is available. According to CBP policy, it is standard procedure to restrain a traveler who is being transported to a detention facility. The use of restraints on detainees during transport is in a manner that is safe, secure, humane, and professional. It is the responsibility of officers to ensure that the need and level of restraints used is consistent with the operational office’s policies and procedures. At no time are restraints used in a punitive manner or in a manner that causes detainees undue pain"

I'd just like to point out, there is no proof that these two incidents(Mohammad Ali jr) are related in any way, shape or form, irrespective of the T agenda.

Subjective associations can become magical thinking, if we aren't keeping tabs on ourselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

Border security knew who this band was, and where they were from. They were not asked any questions about their faith.

Do you believe that Soviet Soviet was religiously or racially profiled? Or do you believe that sensitivity to border crossing, in general, has been heightened.

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,476 Member Since:26/01/2011

#36 [url]

Mar 13 17 3:53 PM

darrickuwins wrote:
At no time are restraints used in a punitive manner or in a manner that causes detainees undue pain"

 

Now THERE'S a couple of distinctions without differences. Talk about beaureaucratese!

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scullyfan

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,543 Member Since:27/07/2011

#39 [url]

Mar 14 17 6:13 PM

harland wrote:
I wouldn't jump up and down and look at this as a Trump thing or post 911 thing. Many years ago, back in the 80's I had a regular Sunday aft/eve gig just across the border. The band had been doing this for years, the owner of the club (who also owned a club in Vancouver where we had the house gig) handling all the Visa work so that we just had to pick them up once a month at the border. One time the owner told us that the Visas were late so just come across as if we were going down as regular Sunday bar hoppers. During the first set border guards came in and arrested us right off the stage. They confiscated our gear and took us to jail, each in our own cell so that we couldn't speak with each other and we each went through some serious interrogation. Hours later they escorted us to the border and that was the last time we ever played there. We did get our gear back.


​I suppose the border guards are just doing their jobs, but I don't remember it being such an unpleasant ordeal when I crossed the border as a child with my parents. Granted this was over 50 years ago. More recently, I took my family into Canada for a day long train ride into the mountains. This was after 911 and things seemed incredibly tense and unreasonably unfriendly at the border for a husband, wife and two kids. We looked like suburbanites, not skinheads, not hippies, not terrorists. I thought the U.S. and Canada were on a friendly basis until this. At one time I very much wanted to travel through Canada by car so we could visit off-the-beaten-path attractions and curiosities. I don't feel like getting the third degree at the border so maybe I'll just stay on this side for now. Flying into the country is a completely different experience: A friend and I flew to St. John, New Brunswick and had a marvelous time, also since 911. 

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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,468 Member Since:27/01/2011

#40 [url]

Mar 15 17 12:39 PM

Growing up on the Canadian border both governments are on the lookout for bands. If there are four stinky dudes in a car they almost always will be grilled. They know about borrowing instuments and backline. You really don't want to piss off a border guard. They can fully disassemble your car and leave it that way.

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