avatar

chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,684 Member Since:30/01/2011

#41 [url]

Mar 8 17 5:34 PM

He said that they do a through rinsing to remove the soap followed by a ph test to determine the complete removal of the soap

Quote    Reply   
avatar

seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,637 Member Since:26/01/2011

#42 [url]

Mar 9 17 12:58 PM

Chance, the owner of Carriage House is an old friend of mine. If you have any questions about the process I'd be glad to ask him.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,684 Member Since:30/01/2011

#43 [url]

Mar 9 17 3:48 PM

seth wrote:
Chance, the owner of Carriage House is an old friend of mine. If you have any questions about the process I'd be glad to ask him.

I just dropped all 34 modules off and they did a test run of one.. My concern is how the ultrasonic can clean inside the pots? The ports on the pots are so small and then wouldn't any lube thats in there be washed out? It's impossible to get a deoxit lube straw to those ports. They are using Brulin 815GD. at 110 degrees, at 20 Khz and a thorough rinse of DI water

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Mike Rivers

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,528 Member Since:13/10/2012

#45 [url]

Mar 9 17 6:07 PM

chance wrote:
My concern is how the ultrasonic can clean inside the pots? The ports on the pots are so small and then wouldn't any lube thats in there be washed out? It's impossible to get a deoxit lube straw to those ports.


I was kind of wondering about that myself. Might be a good question for the Carriage House folks since they had a similar job done there.

I have a hypodermic syringe that I use for getting cleaner and lubricant into tiny pots and switches. As long as there's a hole, you can poke a needle in there and give it a little shot.



For a good time, call mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

Quote    Reply   
avatar

chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,684 Member Since:30/01/2011

#46 [url]

Mar 9 17 8:55 PM

chance wrote:

seth wrote:
Chance, the owner of Carriage House is an old friend of mine. If you have any questions about the process I'd be glad to ask him.

I just dropped all 34 modules off and they did a test run of one.. My concern is how the ultrasonic can clean inside the pots? The ports on the pots are so small and then wouldn't any lube thats in there be washed out? It's impossible to get a deoxit lube straw to those ports. They are using Brulin 815GD. at 110 degrees, at 20 Khz and a thorough rinse of DI water

Here ya go Seth, plus what Mike said

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

Quote    Reply   
avatar

maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,145 Member Since:23/01/2011

#48 [url]

Mar 10 17 10:06 AM

Sorry for the late reply--it's been a busy time.   

White Equalizers specified the cure for noisy pots on their units is 20 turns, stop-to-stop (full left, full right is 1 turn).  For the record, this would not fix the White EQ units that had the notorious bad run of Allen Bradley pots which were all seemingly incurable after a while.  But this cure has worked great for me over the years.  Occasionally a pesky pot would require 30 or even 40 turns, but most will 'calm down' in their bad behaviour.  

 I ran an old Neve-based complex for 13 years: 2 - 8038's (one 32 in, one 60 in created from 2 consoles).  Our primary problem there was the eq in/out switches, phase flip switches, pan switches and channel cut switches (although we built new 8 individual sends/channel modules which also replaced the channel cut switches); the dual concentric frequency selector switches were far less trouble by comparison.   

I had the opportunity to see/hear, on a daily basis, what worked and what didn't for over a decade.  When we were building the big console, the owner decided that ultrasonic cleaning was the way to go.  The ultrasonic cleaning went on for days (LOTS of modules) and, when finished, the modules that had been ultrasonically cleaned performed poorly--I hope you have better luck.   

Even though the techs, when they heard this, would 'shriek in horror' as they told me how it didn't work, the best performing treatment I ever did was cramolin red spray, exercise the switches, then flush with a spray degreaser/cleaner, then cramolin blue spray.  I always used just the smallest possible squirt from the cramolin spray cans.  This made the consoles MASSIVELY more reliable and trouble-free and would last around 6 months.  Unfortunately cramolin is no longer made.  If I had to do this again today, I would try Caig Pro Gold, exercise the switches, flush with a cleaner/degreaser, then a very light spray of (alcohol-diluted) Stabilant.   We really never had much trouble with the Penny & Giles pots, pan pots, etc.  When panners got noisy, the White EQ treatment cleared them up.   Good luck.  

Last Edited By: maarvold Mar 10 17 10:08 AM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,684 Member Since:30/01/2011

#49 [url]

Mar 11 17 2:26 PM

maarvold wrote:
Sorry for the late reply--it's been a busy time.   

White Equalizers specified the cure for noisy pots on their units is 20 turns, stop-to-stop (full left, full right is 1 turn).  For the record, this would not fix the White EQ units that had the notorious bad run of Allen Bradley pots which were all seemingly incurable after a while.  But this cure has worked great for me over the years.  Occasionally a pesky pot would require 30 or even 40 turns, but most will 'calm down' in their bad behaviour.  

 I ran an old Neve-based complex for 13 years: 2 - 8038's (one 32 in, one 60 in created from 2 consoles).  Our primary problem there was the eq in/out switches, phase flip switches, pan switches and channel cut switches (although we built new 8 individual sends/channel modules which also replaced the channel cut switches); the dual concentric frequency selector switches were far less trouble by comparison.   

I had the opportunity to see/hear, on a daily basis, what worked and what didn't for over a decade.  When we were building the big console, the owner decided that ultrasonic cleaning was the way to go.  The ultrasonic cleaning went on for days (LOTS of modules) and, when finished, the modules that had been ultrasonically cleaned performed poorly--I hope you have better luck.   

Even though the techs, when they heard this, would 'shriek in horror' as they told me how it didn't work, the best performing treatment I ever did was cramolin red spray, exercise the switches, then flush with a spray degreaser/cleaner, then cramolin blue spray.  I always used just the smallest possible squirt from the cramolin spray cans.  This made the consoles MASSIVELY more reliable and trouble-free and would last around 6 months.  Unfortunately cramolin is no longer made.  If I had to do this again today, I would try Caig Pro Gold, exercise the switches, flush with a cleaner/degreaser, then a very light spray of (alcohol-diluted) Stabilant.   We really never had much trouble with the Penny & Giles pots, pan pots, etc.  When panners got noisy, the White EQ treatment cleared them up.   Good luck.  

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

Quote    Reply   
avatar

chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,684 Member Since:30/01/2011

#50 [url]

Mar 11 17 2:47 PM

Grrr. Quote function isn't working (again)

"Even though the techs, when they heard this, would 'shriek in horror' as they told me how it didn't work, the best performing treatment I ever did was cramolin red spray, exercise the switches, then flush with a spray degreaser/cleaner, then cramolin blue spray. I always used just the smallest possible squirt from the cramolin spray cans. This made the consoles MASSIVELY more reliable and trouble-free and would last around 6 months. Unfortunately cramolin is no longer made. If I had to do this again today, I would try Caig Pro Gold, exercise the switches, flush with a cleaner/degreaser, then a very light spray of (alcohol-diluted) Stabilant. We really never had much trouble with the Penny & Giles pots, pan pots, etc. When panners got noisy, the White EQ treatment cleared them up. Good luck."

Now I'm really nervous. I keep thinking "What if this,, What if that" Then again I think what if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle
My problem is that I can't see the pots. If I could, it would be a no-brainer to clean & lube
When he did the ultrasonic clean test of one strip, I was blown away at all the crud that surfaced in those tiny bubbles. I don't understand how ultrasonic cleaning could possibly penetrate the small hole in those pots. As for lubing the pots. Should they be lubed? When I get them back, I'm going to see if my borescope will fit between the PCB's and wires to locate the pots. If it does, I might be able to get an extended straw and lube them

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

Last Edited By: chance Mar 11 17 3:06 PM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,145 Member Since:23/01/2011

#51 [url]

Mar 11 17 9:32 PM

Please note that White did not advocate ultrasonic cleaning to fix scratchy pots, nor do I.  White advocated EXERCISING the pots to remove/eliminate scratchiness and this generally worked in my experience.  

My recommendations for spraying things inside the scratchy or intermittant components was in reference to, specifically, the switches found on vintage Neve consoles, which have been VERY popular in L.A. studios over the past 2-3 decades; nearly all of them I encounter have 'old Neve disease' which is marginally working contacts on specific switch locations.  The good news, in my experience, is that if you got the funky switches to work, they would continue to work throughout the session, but might crap out again the following day.  

I am pretty confident that what I proposed would work on other types of switches as well.  Another maintenance tip as far as old Neves go is: if the patch bay cables are true 1/4" TRS (now called B Guage by Neutrik) and are brass, buy a can of Brasso (OK) or Silvo (even better) metal polish and, using paper towels and 'elbow grease', clean the crap out of the plugs every 6 months or so.  MAKE SURE to clean off any residue after cleaning.  You could use water or a contact cleaner/degreaser and paper towels.  And a patch bay burnishing tool from Vertigo is also a good idea IF USED SPARINGLY (because it actually removes metal if you go too far with it).  

Quote    Reply   
avatar

chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,684 Member Since:30/01/2011

#52 [url]

Mar 11 17 10:15 PM

Actually, I never had a problem with the switches, just those noisy, scratchy pots. I would "always" have to exercise them till it cleared up. Wednesday is judgement day. My PB is TT, and has no problems I have the TT injector and burnish tools. I only wish I had the eyes to read the small TT PB labels LOL

Does anyone understand how ultrasonic cleaning could possibly get inside of the pot's housing? I don't get it. they're just bubbles

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

Last Edited By: chance Mar 11 17 10:19 PM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Mike Rivers

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,528 Member Since:13/10/2012

#53 [url]

Mar 12 17 7:04 AM

chance wrote:
Does anyone understand how ultrasonic cleaning could possibly get inside of the pot's housing? I don't get it. they're just bubbles
 


Part of what makes up that liquid soap is something to reduce surface tension, so if there's actually a hole, it will find it and get in. The question is, will it get out? A clean water rinse won't necessarily get in and clean up what's left behind from the ultrasonic cleaner. This is why ultrasonic cleaning isn't always recommended for things that are hidden.



For a good time, call mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

Quote    Reply   
avatar

chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,684 Member Since:30/01/2011

#54 [url]

Mar 12 17 12:24 PM

mikerivers wrote:

chance wrote:
Does anyone understand how ultrasonic cleaning could possibly get inside of the pot's housing? I don't get it. they're just bubbles

 


Part of what makes up that liquid soap is something to reduce surface tension, so if there's actually a hole, it will find it and get in. The question is, will it get out? A clean water rinse won't necessarily get in and clean up what's left behind from the ultrasonic cleaner. This is why ultrasonic cleaning isn't always recommended for things that are hidden.

Good point Mike. I just instructed them to do an ultrasonic dip rinse also

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

Quote    Reply   
avatar

jzombie

Gold Finger

Posts: 543 Member Since:07/02/2011

#55 [url]

Mar 15 17 10:35 AM

maarvold wrote:
Please note that White did not advocate ultrasonic cleaning to fix scratchy pots, nor do I.  White advocated EXERCISING the pots to remove/eliminate scratchiness and this generally worked in my experience.  

My recommendations for spraying things inside the scratchy or intermittant components was in reference to, specifically, the switches found on vintage Neve consoles, which have been VERY popular in L.A. studios over the past 2-3 decades; nearly all of them I encounter have 'old Neve disease' which is marginally working contacts on specific switch locations.  The good news, in my experience, is that if you got the funky switches to work, they would continue to work throughout the session, but might crap out again the following day.  

I am pretty confident that what I proposed would work on other types of switches as well.  Another maintenance tip as far as old Neves go is: if the patch bay cables are true 1/4" TRS (now called B Guage by Neutrik) and are brass, buy a can of Brasso (OK) or Silvo (even better) metal polish and, using paper towels and 'elbow grease', clean the crap out of the plugs every 6 months or so.  MAKE SURE to clean off any residue after cleaning.  You could use water or a contact cleaner/degreaser and paper towels.  And a patch bay burnishing tool from Vertigo is also a good idea IF USED SPARINGLY (because it actually removes metal if you go too far with it).  

I often miss working on an old Neve console every day; then I see a post like this and it goes away! 

Good luck with the cleaning project Chance.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

brewery

Tin Man

Posts: 47 Member Since:08/02/2011

#56 [url]

Mar 19 17 2:35 PM

i'm still freaked out by those full ultrasonic baths, especially for 4ks. those clarostat pots are rarely a problem, and i would hate getting anything in there that might compromise their performance.
definitely insterested to hear from someone with long term experience though.

switches on the other hand..i replaced hundreds of them on my G+, and some are a bit crackly right out of the bag (both schadow and alps). i have everything at a point where there's no drop outs ever once a button is pressed, but i would love every switch to be dead silent, even when switching. been using electrolube eml followed by shop air with good results, sometimes even to improve new switches. 
managed to get a case of miller stephenson to europe a while back, but the cans don't have tube nozzles which makes them pretty much useless (no other ones fit either..)

 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,684 Member Since:30/01/2011

#57 [url]

Apr 25 17 5:35 PM

Update

Did the ultrosonic cleaningimageimage
Had a few problems afterward, but I expected it. When I first powered it up, I ran tones from the onboard osc and everything checked out good. Then I ran some recorded tracks and I had the large faders midway up and they were quite loud, so as our instinctive reflexes work, we instantly pull the faders down. Audio got louder! I made the mistake of plugging the large fader pigtail to the channel strip backward. Very alarming
 

To my surprise when taking all the strips out to clean, I found my long lost C451EB sitting in front of all the edge connecters.image 

On the channel strip, the lg fader plugs can only go one way. Notice the gap in the lower set of pins

imageimageThat gap corosponds with the blocked hole in the connecter. Can only go on one way




But on the Lg fader end of the pigtail, the plug can go on either way, giving a reverse affect on the fader
image


Now that the board is up and running, I have a problem that someone here, maybe from the old place, gave me a solution, but I can't remember. On all the concentric pots, the top pots, indicators caps are loose and rotate within the knob. I can set it at 12:00 work for a while, and just from the vibrations of sound, they move. All 300+ of them. I guess the ultrasonic cleaning loosened them up. I did a search but couldn't find the post where someone gave me a solution to lock these caps in place. Anyone remember or have a solution? I used to think clients were messing with the board when I would leave for a pit stop
image

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help