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maarvold

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Posts: 3,093 Member Since: 23/01/2011

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Mar 19 17 9:21 PM

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As prompted by the Avid Appliction Manager, I updated my HD Driver and Pro Tools HD version to 12.7.1.  Everything was pretty fine for the better part of a couple of days, but then I had a pretty hard crash when instantiating VSS3 (they have a newer version than the one I bought the first day, which I have now installed).  Another thing that's weird is that when I quit PT, it leaves my Lynx Aurora in some kind of weird state: I use a Black Lion DA as my headphone amp (2 channels of the Lynx AES feed it) and the lock light gets all ratty-looking/blinky and it sometimes has put noise out of my headphones.  In addition, when I play back 'known audio' through the digital outputs, I'm not seeing any meter activity on the Lynx's digital side... and, of course, there's no sound.  

I got past this a couple of times by trashing my prefs--it restored normal sound, but now even that doesn't seem to be working.  I'm sure I'll get to the bottom of it, but it's a pain.  In case anyone's wondering, I've tried normal computer restart/power cycle stuff.  
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So I reinstalled PT 12.7.1, then uninstalled and reinstalled HD Driver 12.7.1.  After a few experiments, it seems like a stereo instantiation of VSS3 at 96k is the trigger.  Mono to stereo works... testing stereo now.  OK: this is a nasty problem.  Sometimes trashing the prefs works and brings the audio back to life, but this time that is not working.  Further exploration required.  

Last Edited By: maarvold Mar 19 17 11:36 PM. Edited 1 time

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minister

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Posts: 572 Member Since:27/01/2011

#1 [url]

Mar 19 17 11:30 PM

What OS?

I have 2 - 12.7.1 systems. 1 is an HDX|1 on Sierra 10.12.2. The other is an HDX|2 on Yosemite 10.10.5 (because my beloved CEDAR is still not ready for Sierra). Both on MacPro 5,1's. Both are pretty stable, but not perfect.  12.7 has been one of the best PT expereicnes so far.

Have you tried zapping the P-Ram and resetting the SMS (unplug computer for 30 seconds or more)?

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extrememixing

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Posts: 2,310 Member Since:02/02/2011

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Mar 19 17 11:45 PM

I have 12.7.1 on my computer, too. All good so far. I'm using an Avid Omni and a 192. Very stable with no crashes in a couple of weeks.  I'm 10.12.3.  I don't even think it's supported yet...

I would recommend that you un install the application manager and the cloud services. That seems to stop a lot of problems. And I would try for a while without the VSS3. I didn't wind up buying it, but I've found that, if I have a feeling about a plug being a problem, it usually is. So since you mentioned it...

I always download the updates from "My Avid". I use the HD Driver install that comes bundled with the update software rather than the stand alone download. Hope you get it sorted out.

Steve

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maarvold

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Posts: 3,093 Member Since:23/01/2011

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Mar 19 17 11:52 PM

Yes: it's unquestionably triggered by stereo VSS3 at 96k--even true in a 2 fader session.  I was using VSS3 at 48k all weekend in 12.7.1 without a problem.  4 times in a row instantiating VSS3 stereo at 96k caused either black plug in frame/endless spinning beach ball or unexpectedly quit.  I tried a few other reverbs in the same slot (Reverb One, Phoenix Verb, UAD 250) without a problem.  OS 10.11.6.  Restart seems to return audio functionality.  Sorting it out, there's at least 2 hours of my life I won't get back--I hope they fix it.  

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tim halligan

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Posts: 1,343 Member Since:04/02/2011

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Mar 20 17 1:43 AM

jesse decarlo wrote:
PT native 12.52 has been shockingly stable.


A textbook example of being "damned by faint praise." image

Avid - in particular, but by no means exclusively - seems to have made us all accustomed to, and accepting of, software not working/causing crashes, so when it does work, we all express surprise/shock.

Here's a fun thing...the tv station I do a lot of work at discovered a fault in the software, and got onto Avid support about it. That fault apparently had been in the code since version 10...but because nobody had complained about it - even though Avid knew about it - it was left in.

Brilliant!

Cheers,
Tim

An analogue brain in a digital world

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maarvold

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Mar 20 17 8:30 AM

minister wrote:
From others I have talked to, Yosemite and Sierra and the best OS's.  Get out of 10.11. And, as Steve points out, 1 plugin can cause huge problems. Try removing it from PT entirely and see if you have any crashes.

 
I thought I was pretty clear: I've been using VSS3 without problem UNTIL I updated--as prompted by Avid's application manager--to 12.7.1.  Even then, it was only by instantiating a stereo (NOT mono-to-stereo) version of VSS3 at 96k that caused crashing.  I had also been using VSS3 stereo at 48k without a problem.  In addition, although I would eventually like to go to Sierra, there will most likely be paid software upgrades required for some of the many programs I use regularly.  Regarding removing the plugin, this makes no sense to me: why would I want to remove a plugin that I love, a plugin that I only recently got back after a 5 year absence from the marketplace.  The RIGHT answer is that whomever's software that is causing the problem should fix it: that's why I paid for the software in the first place--to be able to use it.  

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maarvold

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Mar 20 17 9:23 AM

weedywet wrote:
do you still have 12.7?

can you go back for now?

 
I can, and have been considering this.  Meanwhile, I contacted TC tech support (and have a case number) and will contact Avid later today as well.  Since I figured out how to make it happen every time, it seems like it should be pretty easy to find and fix.  

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gtoledo3

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Mar 20 17 10:10 AM

extrememixing wrote:
I think that MacOS 10.11 earned it's nickname of El Crap.

Steve

Don't blame the OS for traditionally bad programming on the part of the vendor, PT, and a bug that happens with using third party software.

Or blame it, if that floats your boat :-)

If nothing in Avid's plugin SDK has changed, and PT app update resulted in the bug, it's a PT problem.

Aside from rebooting the computer, you might see if opening up AudioMIDISetup.app will get the fouled PT driver to "let go" of the interface.

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maarvold

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Mar 20 17 12:42 PM

gtoledo3 wrote:
Aside from rebooting the computer, you might see if opening up AudioMIDISetup.app will get the fouled PT driver to "let go" of the interface.

I just got off the phone with Lynx and you are exactly right: something about the install switched the sound settings to 192k: a setting I have never, and probably will never, use; I switched it back to 48k and all is happy.  

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minister

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Mar 20 17 12:46 PM

maarvold wrote:

minister wrote:
From others I have talked to, Yosemite and Sierra and the best OS's.  Get out of 10.11. And, as Steve points out, 1 plugin can cause huge problems. Try removing it from PT entirely and see if you have any crashes.

 
I thought I was pretty clear: I've been using VSS3 without problem UNTIL I updated--as prompted by Avid's application manager--to 12.7.1.  Even then, it was only by instantiating a stereo (NOT mono-to-stereo) version of VSS3 at 96k that caused crashing.  I had also been using VSS3 stereo at 48k without a problem.  In addition, although I would eventually like to go to Sierra, there will most likely be paid software upgrades required for some of the many programs I use regularly.  Regarding removing the plugin, this makes no sense to me: why would I want to remove a plugin that I love, a plugin that I only recently got back after a 5 year absence from the marketplace.  The RIGHT answer is that whomever's software that is causing the problem should fix it: that's why I paid for the software in the first place--to be able to use it.  

You were clear. But you were also clear that you did not isolate the problem other than in your mind. I was suggesting you remove the plugin and try every other at 96.  Then try putting only VSS3 in and try it at 96.

What plugins work in El Capitain and need a paid upgrade to go to Sierra? 12.7 is 12.7.

I get that you expect it to be fixed because you paid for it, but giving them some more details might help them, don't you think?

Anyway, I was just trying to be helpful.

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maarvold

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#14 [url]

Mar 20 17 4:57 PM

minister
 ...you were also clear that you did not isolate the problem other than in your mind...


Huh?  Getting the problem to occur 4 times out of 4 in a 96k session containing only 1 mono fader with a click plugin and 1 stereo fader with--one at a time--various stereo reverb plugins (including UAD on a quad card) and ONLY having the freeze/quit problem with VSS3... AND doing the same thing with a "Save A Copy" 48k session and NOT having the problem with VSS3 was all the 'proof' I needed to confidently feel like I had isolated the problem and that it would occur every time under those extremely simple conditions.  Both TC and Avid tech support have assigned me case numbers; hopefully between the two of them, they will solve it--ESPECIALLY because it happens every single time--at least on my machine.  

Regarding potential forced paid upgrades to go to Sierra, I don't know about you, but I have MANY more programs on my desktop rig than just Pro Tools and plugins.  

Last Edited By: maarvold Mar 20 17 5:00 PM. Edited 1 time.

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jesse decarlo

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#15 [url]

Mar 20 17 5:27 PM

maarvold wrote:
Regarding potential forced paid upgrades to go to Sierra, I don't know about you, but I have MANY more programs on my desktop rig than just Pro Tools and plugins.  

I'm still using Final Cut Pro 7 and Adobe CS3 with Mac OS 10.11. I am AMAZED (and very grateful) that they still work, and I am hesitant to push my luck when I don't have any compelling reason to move to 10.12.

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maarvold

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Posts: 3,093 Member Since:23/01/2011

#16 [url]

Mar 21 17 4:28 PM

Breaking News: I just got a tech support call from Nestor (I believe that was his name) at Avid tech support.  It turns out that the VSS3 must be extra 'hungry': in my 2 fader 96k session, I was able to repeat the freezing issue by attempting to instantiate VSS3, after first showing him that instantiating ReverbOne, followed by instantiating UAD EMT250, worked fine in the same insert.  In order to continue, I force quit PT, then reopened the same 2 fader 96k session and it was still playing back audio fine (this was not the case in the original problem crashes) so he took control of the computer and switched from 256 samples to a 1024 samples H/W buffer size (in the playback engine) and, when I instantiated VSS3, it opened right up.  As an experiment, I reopened the session and went back to a 256 samples H/W buffer and tried Altiverb, Phoenixverb, R2, and Slate Reverbsuite Classics (in addition to UAD's EMT250 and Avid's ReverbOne, which I had tried previously): all of them opened no problem at 256 samples.  And, after switching to a 512 samples H/W buffer, VSS3 opened up.  So I'm thinking that either: A. There's A LOT more going on 'under the hood' in VSS3 (maybe that's why I like it)--or--B. TC's code just isn't as 'lean & mean' as everybody else's that I tried.  Either way, I'm glad it's working now.  And I have to say, this was a GREAT tech support experience with Avid.  

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maarvold

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Posts: 3,093 Member Since:23/01/2011

#18 [url]

Mar 22 17 8:23 AM

weedywet wrote:
interesting... but it DIDN'T give you a buffer related error message, right?

 
That is correct: no error message... just either an endlessly spinning beach ball--or--plugin frame that was filled with black--or--unexpected quit.  TC's tech support replied and thanked me for the solution.  I'll bet the 'ungraceful' behavior is going to get fixed (so that an error message will occur).  

Last Edited By: maarvold Mar 22 17 8:26 AM. Edited 1 time.

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