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waltzmastering

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Posts: 1,623 Member Since:02/02/2011

#82 [url]

Apr 20 17 8:44 AM

silvertone wrote:
 This was way before the looper concept came into being.  Robert Fripp was ahead of his time.

Getting of the subject a bit more, but my brother Joe had worked with Gary Hall and Bob Sellon at Lexicon to come up with what I think was  the first commercial looper that was named JamMan.
It was derived from the PCM42.  Eventually Lex got sold and Digitech took over the manufacturing.  Did some informal beta testing on JamMan.

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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,678 Member Since:26/01/2011

#83 [url]

Apr 20 17 8:57 AM

zmix wrote:
Much like present day DSD, Delta labs claimed that "the natural sound quality of all DeltaLab products is superior to other effects processors" due to their use of their use of Adaptive Delta Modulation, though at the time nobody agreed with them that this was the case, and PCM became the  preferred technology...

I  recall that they had a very unpleasant HF distortion.

Here is the Effectron I, II, III catalog from 1984



Larry, Do you recall which of your Effectrons had the extended delay time?  (Perhaps it was the  "Echotron ADM4096?")

Note that  Electro Harmonix released the "Fripp in a Box" 16 second delay (which used space-age Bubble Memory!!) in 1981

That was it Chuck, the echotron!  Actually had a II, III and the Echotron.

 That high frequency distortion actually helped the 3340 I had with DBX type1 NR.  As the high end went away after the tape sat on the shelf, the high end distortion helped to retain something up there.  Ha ha.

Man that's going back to like 1977 or so.   Wow.  I know I bought my Tascam 48, 8 track recorder in 1979... and moved up from a Tapco mixer to a Soundcraft 200B.  I was big time then... lol.

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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silvertone

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#84 [url]

Apr 20 17 9:03 AM

waltzmastering wrote:

silvertone wrote:
 This was way before the looper concept came into being.  Robert Fripp was ahead of his time.

Getting of the subject a bit more, but my brother Joe had worked with Gary Hall and Bob Sellon at Lexicon to come up with what I think was  the first commercial looper that was named JamMan.
It was derived from the PCM42.  Eventually Lex got sold and Digitech took over the manufacturing.  Did some informal beta testing on JamMan.

Yep, that was in the early 90's if I recall correctly.  Almost bought the AES show demo one but couldn't stick around till Sunday night to grab it.  

Small world.  We used to play the town Lexicon was manufactured in (Waltham Mass if I recall correctly, Mr. Bills was the club) and some of the guys would come over and watch the band.  Fun times.

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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waltzmastering

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Posts: 1,623 Member Since:02/02/2011

#85 [url]

Apr 20 17 9:19 AM

silvertone wrote:
 We used to play the town Lexicon was manufactured in (Waltham Mass if I recall correctly, Mr. Bills was the club) and some of the guys would come over and watch the band.  Fun times.

Yep.  Our present house is about 2 miles from the old Lex place in Waltham that used to be on Beaver Road. 
I think from talking with Chance he had a studio right across the street from Lex back in the day.

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zmix

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Posts: 3,991 Member Since:20/01/2011

#86 [url]

Apr 20 17 10:04 AM

I worked extensively with Bob Sellon on the "V2" software for the Lexicon Jam Man, it featured 4 tracks of looping and even had 2 selectable MIDI controller maps, one of which he called the "Chuck Zwicky Map"
The fact that the Jam Man was built on the same PCB as the Vortex, etc, meant that it actually had a stereo DAC and we were able to get the 4 loops to be pannable.

Those were the days..

Last Edited By: zmix Apr 20 17 10:08 AM. Edited 1 time.

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jaykadis

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Posts: 2,405 Member Since:24/01/2011

#88 [url]

Apr 20 17 10:51 AM

I'm still using an Effectron Jr. in our PA. The modulation effects do a great Dalek imitation. (That's not what we do with it...) There is something special about that unit - I've tried replacing it with several modern delay/processors but nothing worked as well.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,224 Member Since:04/02/2011

#89 [url]

Apr 20 17 10:56 AM

we have a couple of effectrons around. Sometimes they get used as distortion boxes, or when we want really gritty delay

brad allen williams

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waltzmastering

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Posts: 1,623 Member Since:02/02/2011

#90 [url]

Apr 20 17 2:52 PM

zmix wrote:
I worked extensively with Bob Sellon on the "V2" software for the Lexicon Jam Man, it featured 4 tracks of looping and even had 2 selectable MIDI controller maps, one of which he called the "Chuck Zwicky Map"

The fact that the Jam Man was built on the same PCB as the Vortex, etc, meant that it actually had a stereo DAC and we were able to get the 4 loops to be pannable.


Those were the days..


 

Nice.  Bob seemed to always be coming up with something cool.  I think he went on to work at either Fishmen or Line 6, but he use to drop by the studio every once in a while to demo things.

Last Edited By: waltzmastering Apr 20 17 8:25 PM. Edited 1 time.

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owlander

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Posts: 1,026 Member Since:27/01/2011

#91 [url]

Apr 21 17 2:14 AM

zmix wrote:
I am the sort of person who has infinite curiosity and patience, and I always like to know "why" something seems "different", so I endeavor to learn the cause.


In my test, it turned out that there was RF and other ultrasonic interference within the individual tracks which were causing artifacts in the *audible* spectrum, which went away when I downsampled to 44.1, and these were simply files within a mix, and no difference in "converters" except for my monitoring DAC, which upsamples everything to the same rate.


I wouldn't just assume that listening to 2 channels at 44.1 or 96kHz is going to make the same difference as listening to 50-60 channels at 44.1 or 96kHz.


You know, this very thing kind of happened to me a while back when I was working on a mix. I started to notice that as I began to add in tracks, my ears started to hurt. I suspected high frequency noise. So, I experiemented with various low pass filters at 20k and the pain began to subside. I'm not at all saying that it's the same cause as what you're describing Chuck but, it reminded me of that encounter and how it added up cumulatively.

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silvertone

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Posts: 2,678 Member Since:26/01/2011

#92 [url]

Apr 21 17 5:49 AM

In mastering, I pretty much always remove sub sonic frequencies.

I also sometimes use a Weiss DSIII to remove ultrasonic frequencies, of which you can monitor in the Weiss side chain. Just listening to all the hash that can be up there is amazing. Bob Ludwig taught me that trick when I first got started. Told me his Weiss DS'r was one of the most powerful tools in his arsenal. I didn't really understand why at first. After I started using one for this, I understood why. It's always kept in MS mode so if I'm working on the cymbals I don't touch the lead vocal and vise versa.

Natural cymbal sound is important to me. Took me over 10 years to find the cymbals I record with. They are controlled at the source. It was Steve Gadd who recommended the old Hand hammered K cymbals to me, went through 3 of them before I found the ride that worked for me... but talk about control. You can smash my cymbals and they never take over the sound or become unbearable. For live use they would probably be too quiet.

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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blairl

Gold Finger

Posts: 570 Member Since:26/01/2011

#93 [url]

Apr 21 17 10:29 AM

owlander wrote:
Re: George
Going by gut is still important in terms of instinctual decision making; that is, decisions based on many hundreds of thousands of years of selective and evolved information pickup. You can't learn that stuff from a book, it's unconscious, but you can 'feel' it in your software...per say. Thinking critically, is conscious questioning.

You might like this book:

Thinking Fast and Slow

Written by Nobel Prize winner (and psychologist) Daniel Kahneman.  He details research about what he calls "System 1" and "System 2" in the brain (Intuition vs. Critical Thinking).  He makes the case for a need to rely on System 2, and demonstrates how System 1 (Intuition) is almost always wrong.  He does say that experts in specific subjects seem to have good intuition in that subject.  But points out that it's really just knowledge based on proven, past results. 

Last Edited By: blairl Apr 21 17 10:40 AM. Edited 1 time.

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