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gereon

Silverado

Posts: 145 Member Since: 21/03/2013

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Jul 14 17 12:15 PM

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Hello everyone,
I'm a guitarist.
In the last few years I've dabbled more and more with the recording side of things.
I use more or less the same gear when playing out and recording, butI found that I tend to substantially reduce gain while recording as in cotrast to playing on stage or in a rehearsal space, in order to get punchy recordings and avoid brickwalled harshness with rather close micing positions.

Now, I thought about playing live and FOH sounds.
Typically mics on stage are rather close as well. 
How do I deal with that conundrum of my own diffuse field listening requirements versus close micing idosyncracies?
How do you guys set your amps to yield good FOH sound?
Experiences and advice are really welcome,

Thanks in advance,
all the best,
gereon
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chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,750 Member Since:30/01/2011

#1 [url]

Jul 14 17 3:55 PM

I love recording live in the studio. Recording live in a club is a white knuckle gig for me. For "me", I'll always have the band play/record in the studio with the sound they are used to and happy with. It's my job to capture their sound the best I can without any handicaps for them

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tim halligan

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,360 Member Since:04/02/2011

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Jul 15 17 12:29 AM

Step 1. Buy a Kemper.

Step 2. Go into the studio. Mic your traditional rig in the way that you really like...mic, position, pre, eq, etc.

Step 3. Profile your mic'd rig from step 2.

Step 4. Repeat steps 2 & 3 for every setup/song you need for your gig.

Step 5. Gig with the Kemper direct outs using your profiles of your gear.

Cheers,
Tim

 

An analogue brain in a digital world

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hallams

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,630 Member Since:26/01/2011

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Seems to me you are asking a few different questions in your post. As a guitarist myself Ive traveled through these and found the following usefull.
With respect to reduced gain when recording and wanting the same live vibe or sound, 2 methods ive used........
A. Buy a variac and use your live rig in the studio.
B. Search out a low wattage amp with the same or similar sound signature as your live amp for use in the studio. A fender Champ or similar seems the go for many.

I have found option B to work best for me.

With respect to the "conundrum of my own diffuse field listening requirements " .........I'm not quite sure what you are meaning here but if its hearing the guitar amp from where you are standing as a player rather that with your ear up against the grill cloth as the mic 'hears' the amp, this issue was a biggie for me when I was an infrequent studio player, and was a cause of much frustration. When someone else was the engineer, a big part of this was the different interpretation the engineer had towards the guitars sound and level in the mix. A large portion of this was my ego and wanting every nuance of my playing to be heard in the mix as I heard it in the room. Some of it was the production team not getting the overall vision of the song in the same way the band was aiming at.
It was later in my playing career that I became the engineer and by this time I had mostly grown through the ego aspect of this conundrum..........almost ;)
Firstly learning curvs like being an engineer especially for other musicians projects, grew my appreciation for the tapestry that a multi channel multi instrument recording and production is.
Re the 'diffuse field listening requirements' interpreted as room sounds perspective as opposed to close mic sound, What brought this all together for me was an evolution of intuition and the experiences of other mentors, Particularly Bill Irvine, a Melbourne engineer who i have learned a great deal from and this forum, particularly Terry's shared experience of less is more with respect to the number of mics used, and cardinal panning.
There is a hell of a lot of little, seemingly insignificant aspects, that when all are taken into consideration by the experienced engineer collectively result in a recording that is sounding real, natural, big and musical in a non fatiguing way with the effect of engaging the listener in a similar way and dynamic of that of a live performance. And stuff any one aspect up and the result is an 'F up' with respect to achieving this outcome.

I'm sure others can elaborate better that I

Hallamsound Productions.

Last Edited By: hallams . Edited 1 time.

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hallams

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,630 Member Since:26/01/2011

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A third question seems to be FOH sound and amp settings. I set my amp to how I like, ......... always have always will! I usually don't like my amp in the stage monitors because mostly it messes with my stage sound. The HF driver in the monitors reproduce the amp way too bright at the close listening range of a stage. One thing to be aware of is the higher frequencies drop off in volume over distance so where the one or two inch compression drivers may be great in the FOH, they are too harsh on stage.......... I have put a sock or other dampener in the horn of many a stage monitor ;)
Another thing to think of is the build up of low end and low mids with the stage sound in small to medium venues. I always make sure my amp isnt belting out a lot ov this frequency range and am amazed at how when i do live mixing, how many players seem totally unaware that they are F ing up their stage sound with too much low mid and low end from amps.

Hallamsound Productions.

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John Eppstein

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Posts: 1,321 Member Since:31/05/2015

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hallams wrote:
A third question seems to be FOH sound and amp settings. I set my amp to how I like, ......... always have always will! I usually don't like my amp in the stage monitors because mostly it messes with my stage sound. The HF driver in the monitors reproduce the amp way too bright at the close listening range of a stage. One thing to be aware of is the higher frequencies drop off in volume over distance so where the one or two inch compression drivers may be great in the FOH, they are too harsh on stage.......... I have put a sock or other dampener in the horn of many a stage monitor ;)
Another thing to think of is the build up of low end and low mids with the stage sound in small to medium venues. I always make sure my amp isnt belting out a lot ov this frequency range and am amazed at how when i do live mixing, how many players seem totally unaware that they are F ing up their stage sound with too much low mid and low end from amps.

When I was working for a band opening for Sabbath back in 1980, Tony had a special monitor wedge that contained two of the same speakers he had in his backline amps. No tweeters. Dedicated monitor mix for his guitar wedge with nothing else in it. Worked a treat on a big stage.IIRC he also had a regular vocal wedge but that's a different matter.

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hallams

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Posts: 1,630 Member Since:26/01/2011

#6 [url]

John Eppstein wrote:

hallams wrote:
A third question seems to be FOH sound and amp settings. I set my amp to how I like, ......... always have always will! I usually don't like my amp in the stage monitors because mostly it messes with my stage sound. The HF driver in the monitors reproduce the amp way too bright at the close listening range of a stage. One thing to be aware of is the higher frequencies drop off in volume over distance so where the one or two inch compression drivers may be great in the FOH, they are too harsh on stage.......... I have put a sock or other dampener in the horn of many a stage monitor ;)
Another thing to think of is the build up of low end and low mids with the stage sound in small to medium venues. I always make sure my amp isnt belting out a lot ov this frequency range and am amazed at how when i do live mixing, how many players seem totally unaware that they are F ing up their stage sound with too much low mid and low end from amps.

When I was working for a band opening for Sabbath back in 1980, Tony had a special monitor wedge that contained two of the same speakers he had in his backline amps. No tweeters. Dedicated monitor mix for his guitar wedge with nothing else in it. Worked a treat on a big stage.IIRC he also had a regular vocal wedge but that's a different matter.

Neat Idea. Come to think of it David Briggs of Little River Band had a simmilar setup for his guitar stage monitoring in the 80's when Spy Mathews of Delicate Productions was involved.

 

Hallamsound Productions.

Last Edited By: hallams . Edited 3 times.

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injured ear

Silverado

Posts: 82 Member Since:20/02/2012

#7 [url]

Boogie made a Recto Wedge 1x12 and 2x12 in monitor wedge form. Sadly, discontinued. Saw those in use by John Petrucci.
Also, I remember seeing the opposite for Richie Sambora, where he had 2 4x12 cabinets flanked by 2 more full range PA cabinets disguised to look like matching 4x12s for a "butt fill" mix.

Greg Thompson

www.injured-ear.com

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gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,239 Member Since:23/10/2013

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hallams wrote:

Another thing to think of is the build up of low end and low mids with the stage sound in small to medium venues. I always make sure my amp isnt belting out a lot ov this frequency range and am amazed at how when i do live mixing, how many players seem totally unaware that they are F ing up their stage sound with too much low mid and low end from amps.

That's probably even more common than single coil/ice pick in the ear syndrome.

Another is so much gain that everything gets washed out and it sounds like the guitar is happening very loudly next door somewhere.

On the original point, amp stands can be helpful in some cases. It can also be helpful to use tilt back legs if the amp has them, or put the amp up on a road case.

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