avatar

audiowonderland

Silverado

Posts: 241 Member Since: 21/02/2011

Lead

Jan 6 14 11:17 AM

Tags : :

I have used a 4 mic technique on my (and other) drum kits for years. Its a small dry room and I have gotten very good results. I have never felt particularly compelled to mic the toms.

I have recently moved on to a new kit which usually ends up resulting in a bunch of other changes once the status quo is shattered and now I am interested in micing the toms.

Q1) From the years of not micing toms the cymbals are very low and just above the toms. Works great for balancing the sounds in a 4 mic setup but leaves little to no room to sneak tom mics in. I want to keep my 4mic setup intact. Any advice on fitting the mics in? I can raise the cymbals a little to get mics in but raising them enough to eliminate really bad bleed would like impact the basic 4 mic setup.

Q2) I am short a few mics for doing every tom (5) and I don't want to invest a lot of money into this experiment. I have 3 57's available if I use the 609 or i5 on the snare. I could add 2 57s or look at something like a CAD TSM411 which is currently $40 on MF. The 57's are just long with cables attached and properly placed on a tom

Q3) Alternatively I could just use a stereo pair over the 3 racks and one mic over the 2 floor toms I have 2 CAD M177's. I could add a M179 and be in business. I am leaning in this direction. Would probably have to remove the shock mount and go with a standard mount for space reasons though and bleed is a concern. No matter how many mics get used they will go to a stereo pair of track in the DAW. I could edit the tom tracks hard. Should not be too big of a problem if the OH's are still used for the bulk of the drum sound

Interested in any ideas or suggestions.

Kick mic is a Beta52 and OH's are Kel HM-1s if it matters
Quote    Reply   
avatar

audiowonderland

Silverado

Posts: 241 Member Since:21/02/2011

#2 [url]

Jan 6 14 2:46 PM

compasspnt wrote:
Ah, the Slippery Slope.

Does the kit not sound good with just the normal 4 mic setup?

Actually it sounds pretty darn good.   Sometimes I need to scratch the curiosity itch to remind myself the grass isn't always greener....

Thanks Terry

Quote    Reply   
avatar

podgorny

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,330 Member Since:27/01/2011

#3 [url]

Jan 6 14 3:21 PM

Concert toms are becoming fashionable again. Just put your 57s underneath!

Obviously, if you don't want cymbals in your tom mics, you're going to have to raise them a bit. I don't recall how tight the pattern is on the 609, but it might fit in easily. For a combination of small-size and tight pickup, perhaps some Shure Beta 98s would be your best option.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,112 Member Since:23/10/2013

#4 [url]

Jan 6 14 6:50 PM

No suggestion on the toms exactly, but maybe if you add a condenser to the kick setup, in addition to that Beta 52 you're using, but bring it out so you're getting some toms, it might give a tone that's complimentary to your overhead(s). Maybe not. Then if you have a tom part that's real specific to the arrangement, maybe you could just spot mic whatever part of the kit it is if you really need a different tone.

On a semi-related note, checkout this tom mic setup. Talk about miking some toms! : http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffporcarorosanna.html

Quote    Reply   
avatar

natenajar

Gold Finger

Posts: 843 Member Since:14/04/2011

#5 [url]

Jan 7 14 10:22 AM

Get a couple of miniature omni lavs. Dpa 4061's are great but maybe a bit dear. Plenty of less expensive options. Old countryman, sony ECM, lots of options out there. You won't have to change your setup and don't worry about bleed if you manually gate them in the DAW. They'll sound huge.

N

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ruairi

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,622 Member Since:10/02/2011

#7 [url]

Jan 7 14 2:13 PM

natenajar wrote:
Get a couple of miniature omni lavs. Dpa 4061's are great but maybe a bit dear. Plenty of less expensive options. Old countryman, sony ECM, lots of options out there. You won't have to change your setup and don't worry about bleed if you manually gate them in the DAW. They'll sound huge.

N

Will those DPAs take that SPL?  We've used them for many years in live TV work that I do and we get nasty clipping on an acoustic guitar that is strummed super loud.  I know there is one model that can take more SPL but I can't remember the number.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

natenajar

Gold Finger

Posts: 843 Member Since:14/04/2011

#8 [url]

Jan 7 14 11:14 PM

ruairi wrote:
natenajar wrote:
Get a couple of miniature omni lavs. Dpa 4061's are great but maybe a bit dear. Plenty of less expensive options. Old countryman, sony ECM, lots of options out there. You won't have to change your setup and don't worry about bleed if you manually gate them in the DAW. They'll sound huge.

N

Will those DPAs take that SPL?  We've used them for many years in live TV work that I do and we get nasty clipping on an acoustic guitar that is strummed super loud.  I know there is one model that can take more SPL but I can't remember the number.


The 4061 is the low sensitivity. It takes up to 144. I didn't think about the spl because I don't work on rock records. The 4062 is extra low sensitivity and takes up to 154db before clipping.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

audiowonderland

Silverado

Posts: 241 Member Since:21/02/2011

#9 [url]

Jan 10 14 1:56 PM

In an unrelated note, I bought new boom stand and 12" stereo bar for the studio. A vast upgrade over my existing cheap stage mics with weights zip tied to the bottom for more stability. this should make a number of tasks so much easier. Drum kits being near the top of the list.

Resisting the urge to go nuts micing toms for now until I can mic the new kit up with the usual setup and see what I am working with. With the new boom that can handle it I am going to try a tight 3 mic setup, left/center/right and a coincident pair along with my usual spaced pair setup. Will see what I get and go from there.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

audiowonderland

Silverado

Posts: 241 Member Since:21/02/2011

#10 [url]

Jul 18 14 3:11 PM

UPDATE:

In the end I adjusted the kit a bit and used Shure A56D's to mount 57's on the drums and mix those to a stereo pair of toms. I still like the 4 mic setup. 3 even if I manage to mix my performance well enough from the kit. That said, having the spot mics has proven useful. I find that editing the tom tracks tight and tucking them under the OH's really adds some snap to the sound without losing what I like about a minimal setup when my dynamics are not as good as they should have been in the performance. They are also good for sending to a reverb if needed even if the live mics are not in the mix directly

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ccash

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,467 Member Since:19/01/2011

#12 [url]

Jul 19 14 7:39 AM

I have done a few experiments with toms and even the HiHat, sometimes sounded OK. But I could never get it to sound real.
I always came back to a 4 then a 3 mic setup.

Recently, i started using my CS4 overhead as apposed to the CS1. Magic!

Quote    Reply   
avatar

soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,312 Member Since:04/02/2011

#13 [url]

Jul 19 14 9:53 AM

Sometimes, "eliminating" bleed isn't always the one. Sometimes it's more about ensuring that your bleed is good-sounding bleed.

brad allen williams

Quote    Reply   
avatar

bigbone

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,241 Member Since:27/01/2011

#14 [url]

Jul 19 14 12:41 PM

ccash wrote:
I
Recently, i started using my CS4 overhead as apposed to the CS1. Magic!



I wish i had these option.......  :)

JN

Quote    Reply   
avatar

compasspnt

Diamond Forever

Posts: 21,178 Member Since:08/01/2011

#15 [url]

Jul 19 14 1:25 PM

On an Iron Maiden album, where Nicko had a MASSIVE amount of toms, and they wanted as many as possible mic'd, I used a bunch of the little Røde NT-6 babies. They snuck right into some tiny places.

Still used a CS-1 over the kit though...of course. (The CS-4 wasn't out then yet.)

d09166947b74262e6ccfc893155cfe26ed661090



.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,112 Member Since:23/10/2013

#16 [url]

Jul 20 14 2:00 PM

Very cool to see the placement of the mic on that. I normally place similarly, but from behind, now I'm realizing this placement probably gives less cymbal volume (?).

Quote    Reply   
avatar

fenris

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,450 Member Since:26/01/2011

#18 [url]

Sep 15 15 12:57 AM

I've miked toms by pointing a SDC at the shell, angled downward, and it sounds fine. Solves a lot of placement and leakage problems. Does anyone else mic the shell, or am I out of my mind? (Don't answer that.)

Quote    Reply   
avatar

adam brown

Gold Finger

Posts: 300 Member Since:23/02/2011

#19 [url]

Sep 15 15 10:27 AM

Unconventional

I've got a number of ideas. Some are using old techniques but in reverse of thier standard. If they're stupid ideas I want to try them anyway. I'm really wanting a KU4, & a number of other ribbons, more so than a bunch of sdc/ldc condensers/tube mics for drums especially.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

mario i

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,576 Member Since:28/01/2011

#20 [url]

Sep 15 15 10:44 AM

How do we go from the original poster's request of a 40$ mic to a DPA 4061 - abt 430$ each, to CS-1 and CS-4 and KU-4 which are in the thousands of dollars...

M

Last Edited By: mario i Sep 15 15 10:49 AM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help