avatar

jerry tubb

Gold Finger

Posts: 659 Member Since: 06/02/2011

Lead

Oct 2 14 10:09 PM

Tags : :

Adventures in Archive-land. 10-2-2014 About once per year I go back through our archive of projects & test a few samples to make sure they're holding up. This year I'm checking our 2005 binder of dual layer DVD-R discs, and copying them to HDD as well. The data discs were burned with Toast on a Plextor 716, which was one of the first to do DVD-R DL. Memorex and Verbatim brand media. Maybe some Maxell as well. As we discovered, the Plextor is better at burning the DL discs than reading them, as it's very slow to mount. Shortly after in 2006 we decided to avoid the DL discs since it was new technology, and go back to single layer. So in today's test session I decided to recall the archive discs with our Pioneer BDR-203, a BluRay burner. Found that the 203 mounts the discs very quickly and easily copies the contents (~8.4 GB) to HDD. About a 15 minute process per disc, I can multitask while they're copying, e.g. post vainglorious hubris on FB. Typically I would keep the source mixes, the mastered files, & the master image, roughly 2 GB/project. Much more for big surround projects. Happy to report that the Nine year old DVD-R's are holding up nicely.  I copied about 10 discs today, no issues popped up. We keep the discs safe in a large cabinet, in leather-ette binders, in a climate controlled studio. Yes, I'm fully aware that this is a pretty goofy post };~)> Best, JT 
Quote    Reply   
avatar

mark chalecki

Gold Finger

Posts: 496 Member Since:04/03/2011

#2 [url]

Oct 3 14 8:34 PM

binders or sleeves holding discs should be made of acid free "archival quality" materials, I think the Library Of Congress site has some specs for storing CDR's and DVD's

_m

Quote    Reply   
avatar

biigniick

Silverado

Posts: 157 Member Since:16/02/2011

#3 [url]

Oct 4 14 1:44 PM

yes, i think this is what you're taling about.
http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html

we have archives in the 25 yr old range that are still readable and going strong :-)

but it's always good to hear stories of real-life archives and how they are holding up to the time.  i put more faith in what my friends/collegues say works for them long term and it would be nice to hear others' reprots.

- nick
 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

dcollins

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,373 Member Since:27/01/2011

#4 [url]

Oct 4 14 3:53 PM

I have bunch of FW drives, some from before electricity, and occasionally I have get an old project off one. So far so good. I’m not keeping them running continuously as recommended, nor is there any special treatment other then keeping them in an air-conditioned studio.

I was just thinking the other day that the average project used to be, say, 1GB, and now with saving the 96/24,44/24 and DDP image it’s more like 4 or 5GB. I can’t see making that many DVD’s, so a closet full of 1TB “enterprise” style drives seems like the only way............

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Justin P

Silverado

Posts: 89 Member Since:03/07/2014

#5 [url]

Oct 5 14 7:33 PM

Now that I'm using solid state drives in a Blackmagic Multidock for working projects, I downsized all my archive drives to 2.5" HDDs that I can easily pop in to the Multidock when either archiving projects or need to access an old archived project. The drives are nice and small and don't require a power supply which makes using them quick and easy. I found some nice static resistent cases on Amazon to store them in when I don't need them mounted. I currently have six 1TB drives of archives. I also have another 6 drives that are mirrored to the main back up drives using Carbon Copy Cloner, and kept in a fireproof safe. Any time something is added or altered on one of the archive drives, Carbon Copy Cloner updates the mirrored back-up drive with only the new or changed files, so it's quick and idiot-proof. It felt great to throw out the huge cardboard box of old DVDs when I first moved to hard disk archiving.

These bare 2.5" drives take up way less space than the bigger 3.5" disks in a USB or FireWire enclosure and power supplies. I keep a spreadsheet for each drive with the artist and project title so I know where to look when I need something old, and I don't have to keep mounting drives to find it.

 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,532 Member Since:27/01/2011

#6 [url]

Oct 5 14 7:54 PM

I have a hot swap HD drive tray in my PC. It takes the plain raw SATA drives. When an internal drive is getting full I copy it over and wipe the internal drive. I label them with the start date. Even if I don't know where something is it doesn't take that long to go through them. I should probably get some cataloging software. Every once in a while someone needs something. This week I got a request for something from 2008. That was just before I started using the tray but the drive came up with no problem.

I plan on moving to just using two drive trays with no internal audio drives. When a drive gets full I just put it away and pop in a new one.

Last Edited By: gold Oct 5 14 8:23 PM. Edited 4 times.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

viitalahde

Gold Finger

Posts: 597 Member Since:04/02/2011

#7 [url]

Oct 6 14 1:11 AM

I don't backup full projects, just the masters and the tracks as 24bit files without additional limiting.

Takes some work, and I'm usually a few months behind backing things up, but the plus side is that the files can probably be opened up in the future, while I would not be so sure about full projects.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

technologyworks

Gold Finger

Posts: 664 Member Since:21/02/2011

#8 [url]

Oct 6 14 7:17 AM

Drives being cheap I have taken to just backing up the whole shebang. It's quicker than sorting out DDP and separate WAVs etc etc
Every day I back up my whole system, 4 drives cloned to a backup disk. Weekly i rotate the big backup disk so I always have data at the studio [on 2 sets of media] and at home.
I used to do what you describe Jaako, but its easier for me just to do the whole thing.
I keep recent stuff still live on the working drive and always have access to older projects

Peter

Peter Beckmann

Technologyworks Mastering 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

technologyworks

Gold Finger

Posts: 664 Member Since:21/02/2011

#9 [url]

Oct 6 14 7:19 AM

ps

A friend has just experienced the no backup dead drive scenario in her professional life and it's not nice.
In fact, if anyone has experience of data recovery firms in the UK that can work on Mac OSX disks, I'd love a recommendation.

Peter

Peter Beckmann

Technologyworks Mastering 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

bendermasteringstudio

Silverado

Posts: 220 Member Since:21/02/2011

#11 [url]

Oct 6 14 11:14 AM

waltzmastering wrote:
I don't toss anything and just back up to 1tb fire wire drives and then pick up a new one or two when they're near full.


This, though I think the next I'll buy will be already a USB 3.0 or thunderbolt one now that I've finally upgraded my Mac.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Tarekith

Silverado

Posts: 82 Member Since:30/04/2014

#12 [url]

Oct 6 14 4:27 PM

I've been using USB3 drives for this lately, it's amazing how much faster it is than USB2, not sure compared to FW (been awhile since I used any).

What is your policy on how long you keep your archives? As long as storage space allows? Most of the time if a client comes back and I need to get the archive, it's only been a few months, not years. I've been keeping a 2 year rotation of back ups, but now that it's all on HD, might as well stash them until it becomes unwieldy I guess...

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Justin P

Silverado

Posts: 89 Member Since:03/07/2014

#13 [url]

Oct 6 14 5:49 PM

I have no plans to delete any archives. You never know what might be needed 5, 10, 20, 30 years down the road. I know the means of storage will change over the years as it has already but I don't plan to permentaly get rid of any files. I'm sure as files accumulate over the years, the phyiscal space that the drives take up is going to get smaller, if not fully cloud based. I run iDrive to backup my working projcets so I already have a lot of stuff stored on iDrive as 4th layer of backup. The nice thing about mastering is that the total proejct sizes are not that huge and it's realistic to backup online now.

I share all my masters with clients via Dropbox, and I keep most Dropbox files and links active for about a month after the project is complete unless a special request is made. I signed up for the Dropbox Packrat feature which allows me to restore a deleted file or folder from Dropbox, even after I've cleared it from my account so I don't have to look at it anymore. This saves me time for those clients that come back 5 months later asking why their link isn't valid any more. I can simply restore the files and the same links still work, no re-uploading. Then I nicely ask them to really make sure they keep track of their files this time and clear again after a month or so. It doesn't happen too often but it's a nice feature when I need it. This also serves as another form of long term archiving should for some reason my dual copies of archives on mirrored hard disks have issues which I don't forsee happening unless there is a major natural disaster in my area.

Because of this, I typically only have to dig into my phyiscal archives if something needs to be reworked on an old project.

Last Edited By: Justin P Oct 6 14 5:53 PM. Edited 4 times.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

bblackwood

Tin Man

Posts: 40 Member Since:26/01/2011

#14 [url]

Oct 6 14 6:27 PM

I bought a Dobro system and loaded it with 15 TB of drives - it just hangs off the network so I can easily drag-n-drop the project backups (entire project) and it's expandable. It'll take years to fill the current drive space up.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

jmoran

Gold Finger

Posts: 748 Member Since:23/08/2011

#16 [url]

Oct 6 14 6:57 PM

eSATA dual bay that accepts bare drives in 3.5 and 2.5 sizes is faster, less expensive and not a proprietary file format like the dobro. BU Drives are start/stop dated then go in to plastic storage cases and into the fireproof file cabinets.

(Real engineers pull up U-Matic tapes....)

Quote    Reply   
avatar

aleatoric

Gold Finger

Posts: 259 Member Since:01/02/2012

#17 [url]

Oct 6 14 8:29 PM

I have a redundant backup system (all data stored on two separate hard drives) utilizing the 4 internal SATA hard drive bays in my Mac Pro, external USB hard drives and the built in OSX backup application Time Machine.

My Mac Pro allows for 8TB of internal storage via internal SATA drives.  Easy and affordable enough to have matching sized external hard drives configured with Time Machine to keep clones of each internal hard drive. 

Not sure what I'll do once all 8TB (more like 6.5TB as I don't like to fill my drives all the way) are filled.  Possibily then shift the oldest projects to external hard drives, but just in one place, not two, as at that point those projects would all be 5+ years old.  Who knows though, by the time I fill the 6.5TB it might be worth it to just backup redundently indefintely. 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

biigniick

Silverado

Posts: 157 Member Since:16/02/2011

#19 [url]

Oct 7 14 1:21 PM

aleatoric wrote:
....the built in OSX backup application Time Machine.

 

i think Time Machine is a disaster recovery tool and not necessarily a backup/archive solution.  i may be wrong, but storing all your info in a .spars bundle with incremental backups seems less robust than just cloning the drive over.

i'm interested in how you use time machine and how it's working for you.

- nick

Quote    Reply   
avatar

aleatoric

Gold Finger

Posts: 259 Member Since:01/02/2012

#20 [url]

Oct 7 14 7:08 PM

biigniick wrote:

aleatoric wrote:
....the built in OSX backup application Time Machine.




 

i think Time Machine is a disaster recovery tool and not necessarily a backup/archive solution.  i may be wrong, but storing all your info in a .spars bundle with incremental backups seems less robust than just cloning the drive over.

i'm interested in how you use time machine and how it's working for you.

- nick

Hey Nick,

Interesting.  I've never had any issues with Time Machine, that being said I've never used it to recover an entire drive.  I have however occasionally used it to recover accidentally deleted files several times and it worked just great.  I did not use the "Enter Time Machine" mode.  Just went to the latest backup folder and restored the deleted file('s) back to my internal drive from there.

The way I have it setup is in auto mode.  I however only turn on the external Time Machine drives when I want them to perform a backup.  For the Time Machine drive that backs up my system drive and primary DATA drive (where the recent most 1.5TB of mastering projects live) I turn it on at the end of every working day.  Write some emails or go do something for 10 miunutes, verify backup is complete and successful then turn the drive off.  Seems to work perfectly.

I used to do manual backups with my G5 but it was more time consuming and thus I did not do them as often (certainly not daily like I do now).  Also I feel I would occasionally forget I changed something to say an older session folder or whatever and forget to back it up.  Time Machine just automatically determines what has been changed since the last backup and does its thing, very convenient in that sense. 

What is your cause of concern with Time Machine?  Just the way it saves the data behind the curtains?

EDIT:  A few additional points.  If I needed to replace my internal system hard drive I would most likely use an app like SuperDuper! to make a bootable carbon clone as it seems a bit more robust way of going about that than Time Machine.  Likewise for long term storage, i.e. backing stuff up to a drive that will be sitting in a closet or whatever I'd also use SuperDuper! to make a carbon clone.  For simply mirroring exactly what is on my internal drives at any giving time going back many months Time Machine to the best of my knowledge seems to do this as advertised.

 

Last Edited By: aleatoric Oct 7 14 7:22 PM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help