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crandallwarren

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Mar 2 15 4:58 PM

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I'm think of buying a few 100' DB25-M to DB25-M snakes to go from splitters onstage to mic pres at record position. Anyone think that's a bad idea? Either because of durability or something else.

It seems somwhat precarious for some reason...
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tim halligan

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Mar 2 15 9:11 PM

scullyfan wrote:
There's something about DB25s that doesn't provide me with any confidence in the "Rigors of the Road" department.

This!

I think that whoever decided that the DB25 was a professional audio connection needs to be killed repeatedly.

Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it was Tascam.

Go take a look at any professional touring system, outside broadcast rig, or remote recording rig, and you will find plenty of multipin connectors - Whirlwind MASS, Ramlatch, Gepco, and others - but I'll almost guarantee you will not find any DB25 multicores in mission-critical applications.

If you were working in a situation where this mythical DB25 snake was being connected once...perhaps for an install...then maybe you'd consider it, but if it is for a temporary rig where connections will be made and broiken repeatedly, you need your head read...

Cheers,
Tim

An analogue brain in a digital world

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podgorny

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Mar 2 15 10:41 PM

The only time to use a D-Sub is when some piece of gear you need uses it. Never use it where you have the option to use a more robust connector.

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crandallwarren

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Mar 4 15 9:38 AM

Wow. Alrighty then. Thanks everybody. So, the piece of gear I'm looking at interfacing with is a couple of Radial OX8's. I'm wondering how to leave them at the stage, but put them into a longer snake run for records.

Other options to get the ISO puts into a long snake would be:

-Shorter DB25 to XLR 8 ch looms into a stage box

--same thing, but with the Phoenix connections...

--some sort of custom mass connector job.

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dave harrison

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Mar 4 15 10:40 AM

DB25 is great in an installed environment, lots of connections in a small space. Everytime I take splays out on location, a pin gets bent, or a connector shroud gets bent, or something. DB25 is best left for the studio...

If you do this a LOT, I would check out VEAM connectors.

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RobAnderson

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Mar 6 15 10:32 AM

If you are in a situation where you will be repeatedly patching and unpatching, I'd recommend building a DSUB->[something] connector panel into the rack of that particular unit.  That [something] could be XLR or ELCO or whatever.

The idea would be that the DSUB's would stay permanently plugged in and the other connector on the panel would do the heavy lifting of repeated patching, and provide more robust locking connectors.

YMMV

Last Edited By: RobAnderson Mar 6 15 10:46 AM. Edited 1 time.

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podgorny

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Mar 6 15 12:22 PM

RobAnderson wrote:
If you are in a situation where you will be repeatedly patching and unpatching, I'd recommend building a DSUB->[something] connector panel into the rack of that particular unit.  That [something] could be XLR or ELCO or whatever.

The idea would be that the DSUB's would stay permanently plugged in and the other connector on the panel would do the heavy lifting of repeated patching, and provide more robust locking connectors.

YMMV


This, only with VEAM connectors.

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dave harrison

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Mar 7 15 4:13 PM

Sort of... you can get a 2U panel made with VEAM jacks, that would have cables to D-Sub attached. That way, the D-sub's stay attached to the gear and the VEAM snakes attach / detach when needed.

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crandallwarren

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Posts: 16 Member Since:17/11/2014

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Mar 11 15 8:41 AM

Hey Guys,

These are all great ideas. My preference for the OX-8 is based on the fact that everyone I've asked who's used them says that they're really good transformers. While the DB25/Phoenix connectors aren't ideally for a mobile setup, I do like that they'd be modular. That way, if I'm going out to do a smaller gig with only 8-16 channels-- I don't necessarily have to bring "the giant roadcase with the 58 channel split in it". The Radial Roadster stuff looks ideal for larger gigs though. I'm already a big fan of the stage bug series and it seems like the splitter would be the perfect centerpiece.

Let me ask one more piece of advice in terms of the Radial's. Suppose, instead of DB25 to DB25's, I had DB25 to XLR tails. The DB25 ends could stay plugged into the back of the Radials and the XLR's would simply be to jump into the house stage box and my preamps.

My hesitance with building/buying another form of breakout is that it drastically increases the cost and also the amount of point to point connections involved. At that point, I feel like it would be better to just have something custom built.

C.

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jburtner

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Mar 12 15 11:33 AM

A lot of times I see that the venue or production company for the event are only prepared to provide splits to FOH/MON and they request that we provide a stage box with XLR tails to feed their stage box and we get our split off of our's.... Of course feeding the direct out to them where we take the transformer isolated out to wherever we are set up.

Setting up for this scenario seems both flexible and accomodating.

Cheers!
-jb

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podgorny

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Mar 12 15 11:58 AM

crandallwarren wrote:

 
That's fine. Just install the DB-25s permanently, and DO go overboard with the strain relief.

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bill mueller

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Mar 12 15 3:17 PM

jburtner wrote:
A lot of times I see that the venue or production company for the event are only prepared to provide splits to FOH/MON and they request that we provide a stage box with XLR tails to feed their stage box and we get our split off of our's.... Of course feeding the direct out to them where we take the transformer isolated out to wherever we are set up.

Setting up for this scenario seems both flexible and accomodating.

Cheers!
-jb

"Like" button.

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DavidSpearritt

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Oct 31 15 6:53 PM

What is one to do when some of the most desirable multichannel location gear now seems to only have DB25 connections?

For example:

Merging Horus/Hapi
SSL X-Desk, X-Panda
SPL Neos
Focusrite RedNet
...

Regards
David
 

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John Eppstein

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Oct 31 15 9:10 PM

crandallwarren wrote:
I'm think of buying a few 100' DB25-M to DB25-M snakes to go from splitters onstage to mic pres at record position. Anyone think that's a bad idea? Either because of durability or something else.

It seems somwhat precarious for some reason...

DB25s on stage? No freakin' way! The DB-25 is a non-professional connector, designed to be used in environment where it would not be regularly disconnected and reconnected, not subject to strain and protected from abuse. That's not an onstage environment. They might be suitable for inter-equipment connects inside a dedicated rack where they won't be moved or accessed very often but definitely NOT on a snake. They're too flimsy and they have no effective strain relief.

For a snake cable you'll want something like EDACs/ELCOs or those big, round MIL-spec Amphenols equipped with woven sdteel wire Kellams grip strain reliefs. There's also another big, blocky multipin that I've seen on a lot of snakes that I don't know the name of off hand, a call to a manufacturer of large touring consoles or a large sound reinforcement company can probably get you the name. (EDIT: I see thast sdome of the other guys have provided the names of other pro quality multipin connectors.)

All these connectors are much more expensive than DB25s, but they will not fail in the middle of the show and are highly unlikely to develop annoying intermittents, assuming they have been correctly assembled. Connectors on stage snakes HAVE to be able to take a beating on a regular basis without developing problems.

If you're connecting to gear that uses DB-25 for connections, run a short DB-25 cable to a panel in the rack with the mating connector to your snake on it. Don';t connect the DB-25 directly to the snake. Another benefit of doing it this way is that a DB-25 is only capable of handling eight 3 wire mic lines, so you'd need to have several DB connectors splitting out from the snake, which is an inmvitation to broken wires and chronic maintenance problems, whereas the larger professional multipin connectors can frequently handle up to 32 mic lines each on a 96 contact connector.

Even if this snake is to be used in a non-portable venue or studio installation I would still go with the professional quality connector - if you don't you'll regret it down the line. Re4mkember, snake cable is HEAVY and if the connector lacks adequate strain relief it will put undue stress on the wire-to-contact connections which WILL eventually result in failure or, if not, annoyingly flaky connections. It'll also make those chintzy screws holding the DB-25 plug to the socket REALLY difficult to unscrew.

On last thing I'd like to mention - you are NOT going to find real professional quality sound reinforcement or location recording gear at any of the well known, mass market gear outlets. You'll have to go to a real pro audio dealer who specializes in catering to commercial studios and remote trucks and sound reinforcement companies. Most of these dealers don't advertise a whole lot because people who are in their market generally know who they are. And, with a few exceptions, most of the gear you see advertised in the gear publications as "moist pro" isn't. Even if a mass market dealer sells stuff from a company with a reputation for heavy-duty studio or SR gear - for example SSL -  (with the exception of outboard), they almost certainly don't carry the real top of the line pro stuff and in many (or most) cases can't get it because they're on a lower tier of the company's dealer network.

Last Edited By: John Eppstein Oct 31 15 9:47 PM. Edited 1 time.

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John Eppstein

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Oct 31 15 9:28 PM

djs wrote:
What is one to do when some of the most desirable multichannel location gear now seems to only have DB25 connections?

For example:

Merging Horus/Hapi
SSL X-Desk, X-Panda
SPL Neos
Focusrite RedNet
...

Regards
David

 

As I mentioned above, run a short cable from the DB-25 to a more robust professional connector mounted on a rack panel.

I don't know about location recording gear, but NO professional quality sound reinforcement gear uses DB-25 for snake connections or any other high-wear application. (I can't actually recall seeing them anywhere, but it could be that some of the new digital stuff that was designed by computer nerds instead of experienced audio people might have them.

There are only two reasons that companies producing the gear you mentioned are using DB-25:

1.) They're much more compact than professional tour quality connectors, so the gear can be made smaller

2..) They're MUCH, MUCH CHEAPER than a high quality connector. You can buy a couple dozen DB-25S for the cost of the pin insertion tool you need to assemble EDAC connectors. And the pins are a buck or two apiece, plus the cost of the shell and hood. Good connectors aren't cheap, and gear like the SSL X-Desk, SPL Neos, etc. is definitely built to a price point. It's not really professional level gear, it's high end prosumer.

I seriously doubt that SSL uses DB-25 connectors for I/O on their professional series consoles. Probably EDAC, which is the standard for studio consoles.

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John Eppstein

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Oct 31 15 9:35 PM

crandallwarren wrote:
Hey Guys,

These are all great ideas. My preference for the OX-8 is based on the fact that everyone I've asked who's used them says that they're really good transformers. While the DB25/Phoenix connectors aren't ideally for a mobile setup, I do like that they'd be modular. That way, if I'm going out to do a smaller gig with only 8-16 channels-- I don't necessarily have to bring "the giant roadcase with the 58 channel split in it". The Radial Roadster stuff looks ideal for larger gigs though. I'm already a big fan of the stage bug series and it seems like the splitter would be the perfect centerpiece.

Let me ask one more piece of advice in terms of the Radial's. Suppose, instead of DB25 to DB25's, I had DB25 to XLR tails. The DB25 ends could stay plugged into the back of the Radials and the XLR's would simply be to jump into the house stage box and my preamps.

My hesitance with building/buying another form of breakout is that it drastically increases the cost and also the amount of point to point connections involved. At that point, I feel like it would be better to just have something custom built.

C.

Then you'll have ongoing problems with broken and shorted connections in the back of the Radials. No strain relief in the connector.

DB-25 should only be used in static situations where the cabled hardly ever moves.

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