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gereon

Silverado

Posts: 144 Member Since:21/03/2013

#21 [url]

Dec 29 15 4:44 PM

soapfoot wrote:
I recommend purchasing F. Alton Everest's book Master Handbook of Acoustics. That would probably be money better spent than anything in Hobby Lobby as far as treating your room goes.
 

Is it recommendable to get the latest edition of the book?
The earlier editions are dirt cheap used.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,182 Member Since:04/02/2011

#22 [url]

Dec 29 15 5:02 PM

gereon wrote:
soapfoot wrote:
I recommend purchasing F. Alton Everest's book Master Handbook of Acoustics. That would probably be money better spent than anything in Hobby Lobby as far as treating your room goes.
 
 
Is it recommendable to get the latest edition of the book?
The earlier editions are dirt cheap used.

If it's the difference between getting it and not getting it, I'd go with the dirt cheap earlier version.

I haven't scoured the latest version, but I have an older version that taught me so, so much and saved me from my own idiocy a time or two.

I highly recommend reading it cover to cover twice, and then keeping it on the shelf as a reference.

brad allen williams

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adam brown

Gold Finger

Posts: 300 Member Since:23/02/2011

#23 [url]

Dec 29 15 8:06 PM

soapfoot wrote:
gereon wrote:
soapfoot wrote:

I recommend purchasing F. Alton Everest's book Master Handbook of Acoustics. That would probably be money better spent than anything in Hobby Lobby as far as treating your room goes.

 

 

Is it recommendable to get the latest edition of the book?

The earlier editions are dirt cheap used.



If it's the difference between getting it and not getting it, I'd go with the dirt cheap earlier version.


I haven't scoured the latest version, but I have an older version that taught me so, so much and saved me from my own idiocy a time or two.


I highly recommend reading it cover to cover twice, and then keeping it on the shelf as a reference.



Yes of course. I shall try, however reading puts me to sleep at any length, and I have what's called high functioning aspergers, so if things ramble on that aren't of precise interest, I tend to forget them within seconds after reading them. I'm the same with names of new people, ect ect. Makes learning something new, sometimes way more difficult than it should be. Other things I obsess a bit over.

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John Eppstein

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Posts: 1,177 Member Since:31/05/2015

#24 [url]

Jan 1 16 12:50 AM

adam brown wrote:

soapfoot wrote:

adam brown wrote:
Would it be unheard of to hang 4" 703 panels from the ceiling?



Not at all. People refer to this as a "cloud." Wrap it in fabric first so HVAC doesn't disturb fiberglas fibers and blow them around. This goes for anywhere you hang 703.

 


To clarify, I mean 703 panels hanging vertical, length wise, parallel to walls, or perhaps diagonal to some degree?

Wasn't your ceiling only about 8 feet? Are you only recording dwarves?

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maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,021 Member Since:23/01/2011

#25 [url]

Jan 1 16 12:09 PM

I've posted this several times in various places: it is good to keep in mind the fact that absorption removes energy from the room while diffusion doesn't remove it but, rather, redirects energy in a sonically useful way... at least when used with some knowledge.  Cutting to the chase, why don't you hire an acoustician as a consultant?  Let them spend a couple of hours at your place and spitball some ideas.  If they will let you, I would tape the person's comments: most people will 'lose' or misinterpret at least some of the information.  How to acheive recorded sound we like in spaces (rooms) is fascinating, deep and sometimes flies in the face of what's in 'the rulebook(s)'.  But there's a lot to know: why not enlist someone who already knows it to help you?  My $.02.  

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,182 Member Since:04/02/2011

#26 [url]

Jan 1 16 12:35 PM

Depending where you are located (i.e. if there are good acousticians in your area), I wholeheartedly agree with Michael's comments above.

We went a step further and actually had an acoustician/architect design our studio and built it from his blueprints. The room sounds amazing, it was worth every penny.

brad allen williams

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maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,021 Member Since:23/01/2011

#27 [url]

Jan 1 16 12:49 PM

soapfoot wrote:
...We went a step further and actually had an acoustician/architect design our studio and built it from his blueprints. The room sounds amazing, it was worth every penny.

 
 
QFE!!

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adam brown

Gold Finger

Posts: 300 Member Since:23/02/2011

#28 [url]

Jan 1 16 4:55 PM

John Eppstein wrote:
adam brown wrote:

soapfoot wrote:

adam brown wrote:
Would it be unheard of to hang 4" 703 panels from the ceiling?



Not at all. People refer to this as a "cloud." Wrap it in fabric first so HVAC doesn't disturb fiberglas fibers and blow them around. This goes for anywhere you hang 703.

 


To clarify, I mean 703 panels hanging vertical, length wise, parallel to walls, or perhaps diagonal to some degree?

Wasn't your ceiling only about 8 feet? Are you only recording dwarves?



Leave it to you John, so yes that's what I want. I want the entire ceiling covered with 703 panels hanging length wise in the vertical, because that's all I want to do is record dwarf French Horn players, oh and Flugelhorn.

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adam brown

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Posts: 300 Member Since:23/02/2011

#30 [url]

Jan 3 16 5:34 PM

morespaceecho wrote:
if you want your panels hanging vertically, why would you hang them from the ceiling when it would be a million times easier to hang them from the walls?



Just being sarcastic to John's reply.

I want panels mounted on the walls & panels hung from the ceiling where appropriate. The ones on the walls likely wouldn't be moved, but the hanging ones could be to make the room either more or less lively.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,182 Member Since:04/02/2011

#31 [url]

Jan 3 16 7:11 PM

why not just make some rolling gobos (with one soft side and one hard side, and a window in them perhaps) to create movable/changeable acoustic room characteristics?

brad allen williams

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,530 Member Since:26/01/2011

#32 [url]

Jan 3 16 7:22 PM

I had an acoustician help me tune my room and my playback system. It's a very small, eccentric setup and I'm very happy with the results. Mixes translate much more reliably than they did before.

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John Eppstein

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Posts: 1,177 Member Since:31/05/2015

#33 [url]

Jan 4 16 5:18 AM

adam brown wrote:

morespaceecho wrote:
if you want your panels hanging vertically, why would you hang them from the ceiling when it would be a million times easier to hang them from the walls?

 


Just being sarcastic to John's reply.

I want panels mounted on the walls & panels hung from the ceiling where appropriate. The ones on the walls likely wouldn't be moved, but the hanging ones could be to make the room either more or less lively.

I think there's a miscommunication going on here.

My response was assuming that you were talking about hanging panels from the ceiling vertically (which is what you said), which is a fairly common technique employed in concert halls and (very) large recoreding studios with high ceilings - the sort of studios designed for orchestral recordings. Done correctly in such environs it can be quite e3ffective, however the size of panels generally employed for such purposwes use betrween 4 and 8 feet of headroom. Your stated room dimensions of 8 feet total height do njot provide enough space for such treatment. In a low ceilinged room sauch as yours panels might be suspended parallel to the ceiling (what is known as a "cloud"), especially above the drums, but not vertically.

If the panels are placed close to the walls there's no real reason for ceiling mounting, and attachment to the wall is almost certainly more stable.

I think your sarcasm is somewhat misplaced.

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adam brown

Gold Finger

Posts: 300 Member Since:23/02/2011

#34 [url]

Jan 4 16 5:58 PM

I thought you were prodding me John. Ok sorry I blew up.

As far as hanging 4" thick 703 panel vertical from the ceiling, only near the walls, with a bit of gap. If they are 2'×3', combined with book shelve/bass traps, 4 or 5ft high on the floor, along the wall, 2 or 3ft deep, I think will catch all the bad waves. I'm planning to grid the floor, so everything tracked in it will be in an acoustically balanced symmetrical stereo field, that can be dead or lively, by just taking down a few 703 panels. And yes I can have some made into gobbos also, with some nice maple or cedar on one side. I'm not sure I want to hang any from the ceiling, cloud style. Might try, but my ceiling is not a high one. Still waiting to get back in to measure everything. Closing is on Jan 19th.

Thanks everyone. Hope all is going well.
Peace.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,182 Member Since:04/02/2011

#37 [url]

Jan 4 16 8:42 PM

i'm eternally surprised anew at just HOW MUCH bass trapping is necessary to "catch all the bad waves" in a typical room that wasn't purpose-built as a recording space.

brad allen williams

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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,494 Member Since:27/01/2011

#38 [url]

Jan 4 16 10:33 PM

soapfoot wrote:
i'm eternally surprised anew at just HOW MUCH bass trapping is necessary to "catch all the bad waves" in a typical room that wasn't purpose-built as a recording space.

For DIY acoustics in a small room, by the time you install enough 703 it's usualy overdamped in the high end. I much prefer Themafiber SAFB for general use. It's less dense and about half the price.

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John Eppstein

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,177 Member Since:31/05/2015

#39 [url]

Jan 5 16 4:14 AM

adam brown wrote:

There is a line in Canary Row, the movie, not the book, yeah I don't ready books much.

The bum says "Why don't you just give up?"

I laugh every time.




 

Don't you mean "Cannery Row", the famous novel by John Steinbeck, set in the canning district of the fishing city of Monterrey, Ca. during the Depression?

A "canary" is a small singing bird, used as pets and as sentinels in mines, as they'll die from poison/explosive gas before people are aware of it.

Not meaning to "prod" (at least not much, this time), but I am a bit of a stickler for correct nomenclature, as without clear meanings communication is impossible.

Speaking as a person who has done "eyeball acoustics" in several situations with more or less reasonable results (depending on a givenj value of "reasonable") I've never done it (and would not attempt it) without having referred to the accepted reference books on each occasion. There's a big difference between a semi-educated guess and blind luck.

Good luck and peace!

Last Edited By: John Eppstein Jan 5 16 4:36 AM. Edited 4 times.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,182 Member Since:04/02/2011

#40 [url]

Jan 5 16 12:44 PM

gold wrote:

soapfoot wrote:
i'm eternally surprised anew at just HOW MUCH bass trapping is necessary to "catch all the bad waves" in a typical room that wasn't purpose-built as a recording space.

For DIY acoustics in a small room, by the time you install enough 703 it's usualy overdamped in the high end. I much prefer Themafiber SAFB for general use. It's less dense and about half the price.


Agreed 100%.

Three possible DIY-friendly strategies that can help (bearing in mind that I am NOT an acoustician):

If you're covering the walls in 703, then wood 1-by slats in front of 703 (a la Power Station/Avatar and many other places, including ours) can bring a lot of life back to the high end, and the acoustic live/dead character is controlled by the spacing of the slats.

If you're making localized bass traps instead, and if you have the space, make the traps deep instead of broad... in other words, rather than just hanging 2" thick panels all over the walls (making the walls "soft"), if you can build corner traps that are reasonably deep, or create soffits or dedicate some space to frame very thick traps (single layer of 703 with fluffy behind, a couple of feet deep) you can get some bass trapping without just making everything soft. 

If there's not the space, tools, or inclination to do anything but just hang 2' x 4' 703 panels on the walls, then facing the 703 in kraft paper or another semi-hard (but thin) surface can reflect a little it of high end back but be "invisible" to the low end.

Obviously, no DIY strategy is going to be as effective as a well-designed room by a trained acoustician. And I'm not one of those-- just a guy who has built a couple of rooms of various sizes-- so take the above with a grain of salt.

brad allen williams

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