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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,468 Member Since:27/01/2011

#41 [url]

Jan 5 16 1:20 PM

The thing I like about Thermafiber SAFB is that most of the time you don't even need to unpack the bails the sheets come in. Just throw a few bails in each corner, put a couple bails over your head and use a sheet or two at refection points. You barely need tools to do this and when you move you can just pack it up and go.

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,190 Member Since:29/01/2011

#42 [url]

Jan 5 16 3:21 PM

but who wants to look at bails of insulation in their nice studio?

soapfoot wrote:i'm eternally surprised anew at just HOW MUCH bass trapping is necessary to "catch all the bad waves" in a typical room that wasn't purpose-built as a recording space.

yeah, me too. it takes a LOT to even out the low end to a reasonable degree. besides the deepest possible corner traps, i've found that putting soffit-style traps all around the wall/ceiling boundry really helps, and it doesn't take up any floor space.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,468 Member Since:27/01/2011

#43 [url]

Jan 5 16 3:31 PM

morespaceecho wrote:
but who wants to look at bails of insulation in their nice studio?

 

Nothing is stopping you from building an elborate box around them, throwing a piece of fabric over them, spray painting them, or any other cosmetic addition. My point was that it's not necessary to have a carpentry shop to use fiberglass/mineral wool.

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,190 Member Since:29/01/2011

#44 [url]

Jan 5 16 4:23 PM

ah ok. agreed! it's about the easiest part of building a studio. besides painting.

speaking of 703, if any n00bs are reading this, if you need to cut down the panels, you can just use a regular old utility knife. this sounds totally obvious right? a (very smart) friend was building out his place, he's telling me "man those 703 panels were a total pain to cut...." 

"dude. utility knife. wtf."

"oh."

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,468 Member Since:27/01/2011

#47 [url]

Jan 6 16 10:37 PM

703 is very powerful. Most tend to cover the walls with a sheet or two. Ususally in some misguided attempt to "soundproof" the room. This will produce terrible results. If you use it like I suggested by placing bails of it in the corners and putting a sheet or two at reflection points it will work much better. I personally don't like 703 for this. It works too well. You will hear where it is. With less dense material it will blend in more.  The big boys can blend materials and make things sound smooth. You are not going to get it perfect. Try for decent.

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Mickeyrouse

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Posts: 127 Member Since:05/11/2015

#49 [url]

Jan 7 16 2:45 PM

Diffusers

soapfoot wrote:
Adam, here's an article I wrote featuring a quick "recipe" you can follow to build your own BBC-style diffusers inexpensively. It is a bit labor-intensive, however.

http://tapeop.com/tutorials/83/diy-diffusors/

 

Brad-
Very informative and practical article, one I shall be using.  However, since a 2" x 2" is a nominal size actually measuring 1-1/2" x1-1/2", is the width of the panel adjusted to accomodate that with no spaces, or are the varying lengths mounted on 2" centers? 
  Painting each length different colors is a colorful way to brighten up the often sterile studio environment.
Can you offer guidance on placement, grouping, number, etc?
Mickey Rouse

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,044 Member Since:04/02/2011

#50 [url]

Jan 7 16 3:21 PM

Mickeyrouse wrote:

soapfoot wrote:
Adam, here's an article I wrote featuring a quick "recipe" you can follow to build your own BBC-style diffusers inexpensively. It is a bit labor-intensive, however.

http://tapeop.com/tutorials/83/diy-diffusors/




 

Brad-
Very informative and practical article, one I shall be using.  However, since a 2" x 2" is a nominal size actually measuring 1-1/2" x1-1/2", is the width of the panel adjusted to accomodate that with no spaces, or are the varying lengths mounted on 2" centers? 
  Painting each length different colors is a colorful way to brighten up the often sterile studio environment.
Can you offer guidance on placement, grouping, number, etc?
Mickey Rouse

Thanks! That was a mistake on the part of the magazine's editors. In my original text, I said "2x2 studs" and they converted it to "2 inch by 2 inch studs." I assume the editors did not know about typical milling practices, and thought they were making the article clearer. There were several letters about that after publication.

There should be no spaces between the pieces. The finished panel will be roughly 18 inches square, but I allow some extra (about a quarter to half an inch in each direction) on the backing board to allow some margin of error.

As for placement, I have no especially informed advice, except that diffusion is often a good thing on the back wall of a control room, and that even partial coverage with these tends to be pretty good. In our Studio B live room, we have very large sets of panels at about "drum overhead height" on two adjoining walls. That way, each diffuse wall mirrors a flat wall (as opposed to two diffuse walls mirroring each other).  I can say that the room sounds very good, but correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.
Like so:

image
 

brad allen williams

Last Edited By: soapfoot Jan 7 16 3:23 PM. Edited 1 time.

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adam brown

Gold Finger

Posts: 300 Member Since:23/02/2011

#51 [url]

Jan 7 16 3:31 PM

Ooo

Pretty. How big is that space? Mine isn't anything near that big of course, my biggest room. Going in Friday to take some measurements.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,044 Member Since:04/02/2011

#52 [url]

Jan 7 16 3:48 PM

while our A room is quite sizable, this B room is relatively small.

The live room is 230 square feet, with a 12' ceiling (soft). But the console in the 220 square foot control room is position 1/3 from the back wall, and the front third of the room has sight lines to the main tracking space, and can be (and has been) pressed into service as an "iso booth" of sorts for scratch vocals etc, with monitoring levels relatively low at engineer position.

brad allen williams

Last Edited By: soapfoot Jan 7 16 4:02 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Mickeyrouse

Silverado

Posts: 127 Member Since:05/11/2015

#53 [url]

Jan 7 16 3:56 PM

Very helpful regarding height (altitude?). The picture even more so. Jealous of your clutter-free room. Since the photo seems to be with a wide-angle lens, hard to guess at ceiling height: 12 ft? 14 ft?

All in all, treating a control room seems more fruitful than a live room- to me, the variables are well nigh overwhelming considering the various types of music, ensemble size, etc, etc. ("great for horns, but stinks on drums"). 
 I believe we also anecdotally evaluate. For example, I'm 6' 1". I typically wear tennis shoes with about a 1/2" heel. That makes my ears about 5'10" from the floor.  So when I listen to what's going on in a room and try to do something about it, I'm listening at a distance sometimes of as much as 5 feet from where a mic is placed, for example on kick and (possibly) amplifier cabinets. A good three feet up from where a snare mic may be. Two feet for some horns, 1 foot for female vocalists- you get the picture. There is no way that room is going to sound the same at those varying strata. 
  It just seems to me that it could be made "perfect" for a particular type of instrument with a specific sound in a precise location with a given mic. But then the ensemble composition and size issues start rearing their ugly heads, and after we have squeezed everybody in and worked out line-of-sight....well, as a previous comment says, work for "pretty good, you won't  get perfect anyway."
 I am reminded of the photos I've seen of the old Gold Star and the wrecking crew. 30 musicians in a room not much more than 30 feet long. They were just relieved to squeeze them in there. And they cut a few hits too.

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,190 Member Since:29/01/2011

#55 [url]

Jan 8 16 4:56 PM

was watching a jojo mayer vid the other day, thinking "is that brad's place?" it is! that's a really nice looking room. i especially like the wood frame around the air vent for some reason. just looks cool. 

can you tell us what's in the walls?

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,044 Member Since:04/02/2011

#56 [url]

Jan 8 16 5:13 PM

morespaceecho wrote:
was watching a jojo mayer vid the other day, thinking "is that brad's place?" it is! that's a really nice looking room. i especially like the wood frame around the air vent for some reason. just looks cool. 

can you tell us what's in the walls?

Yes, Jojo is very much a part of the family; lots of his drums are here, and all of his band members are engineers and/or owners of the studio. All of his recent music is recorded and mixed here, except for the live album which was mixed here.

The walls are:  double walls framed in 2x6 studs (each side) with a 1" air gap in between. fluffy pink insulation between the studs, plywood sheathing over the two outside faces, 2 layers of sheetrock on top of the plywood sheathing of each outside face, 703 (1.5" thick) over the sheetrock, held in place between 2x2 furring a little over 2' on center, loosely-woven fabric over the 703, and finally 1-by pine slats over the fabric.

The diffuser panels are deck-screwed directly through the sheetrock to the plywood and studs underneath. They're heavy as hell. I cut each and every one of those diffuser pieces by myself. I'm not lying when I tell you there were massive ankle-deep (at leat) snowdrifts of sawdust in that place by the time I was done.

There's a "superchunk" style trap made of  703 in the corner you're facing in the photo. Not visible (if you were to turn to the right in the photo) are the CR window and door, and above both there's a soffit that runs the length of the room, roughly 1/3 height up all the way to the ceiling, non-parallel with the opposite wall (from about 2' down to 1' or so, guesstimating) that's a bass trap filled with fluffy and faced with the same 703/fabric/slats combo.
 

brad allen williams

Last Edited By: soapfoot Jan 8 16 5:22 PM. Edited 5 times.

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adam brown

Gold Finger

Posts: 300 Member Since:23/02/2011

#57 [url]

Jan 8 16 6:01 PM

My room (s) dimensions

Intended tracking room: 13'3"×19'3"×8'0"

Intended control room: 11'0"×13'7.5"×8'0"

There you have it folks.

Being back in there today, I'm now thinking minimum room treatment. Sounds pretty good as is to my ear.

More on the story to follow.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,044 Member Since:04/02/2011

#59 [url]

Jan 8 16 7:02 PM

morespaceecho wrote:
thanks brad. the little things sticking through the ceiling absorbers are sprinklers?

yup

brad allen williams

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