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oneflightup

Tin Man

Posts: 11 Member Since: 10/09/2015

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Dec 29 15 4:57 AM

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Hi everyone,

Hope you all had a good xmas. Since my last thread on Recording Bass went down rather well (certainly got a lively discussion going!) I thought I'd share another article with you guys...

I recently had to record a vintage Gretsch drum kit for a cover of an old jazz standard. The vibe was laid back and relaxed (both the song and the session!) and we all had a great time and were very happy with the result. So I thought I'd write it up...

Recording Vintage Drums

What are your thoughts? How would you have done it? Any interesting experiences to share?

Cheers,

Nick

------------------
One Flight Up | Sydney Recording Studios
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barry hufker

Diamond Forever

Posts: 12,192 Member Since:26/01/2011

#1 [url]

Dec 29 15 5:04 AM

I enjoyed your article quite a bit  -- and I got to hear a good tune!  Thank you for sharing that.  I hope you'll continue with this subject.

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tim halligan

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,352 Member Since:04/02/2011

#4 [url]

Dec 29 15 9:12 AM

bigbone wrote:
The thickness of my wallet these days would not make any difference on my snare dampening..........:)  :)

JN

Jesn wins!

Comedy gold!

Cheers,
Tim

An analogue brain in a digital world

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,629 Member Since:26/01/2011

#7 [url]

Dec 29 15 10:37 AM

I can't tell you how many times I walked out of sessions with a drummer who stopped, groped around a bit and said, "Oh shit, I have to go back. I left my wallet on the snare."

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,398 Member Since:04/02/2011

#8 [url]

Dec 29 15 10:58 AM

Musing aloud--

I wonder why people associate RCA ribbons from 50 years ago with a so-called "vintage" sound, and yet do not have the same association with classic condenser mics from the same era, even though the classic condensers were arguably part of the "sound" of the classic recordings just as much as (if not more than) the classic ribbons, and even though the classic ribbons are used to great effect on many contemporary recordings that are not specifically going for a "vintage' sound.

Why did/do ribbons get to be the great signifier of "vintageness" in microphones?

If my understanding is correct, Rudy Van Gelder used largely Schoeps and Neumann condensers on the classic Blue Note recordings, and almost no ribbons (to my knowledge). And Mr. Olhsson will correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite confident that Neumann condensers were used at Motown far, far more than any ribbon. Yet when people try to evoke either of these two moments in history, they reach for ribbon microphones and their "vintage" sound as a signifier. But the historical record does not bear out the notion that ribbons were especially important to the sound of those records. I wonder what is the source of this phenomenon (which could almost qualify as a mythology, really)?

brad allen williams

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wireline

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,123 Member Since:24/01/2011

#9 [url]

Dec 29 15 11:30 AM

Who's sense of vintage - Geoff Emerick (all dynamic) or Bradley Owen (whatever was left over from everything else)?

If it matters, I always thought the Kotex Maxi pads were much more effective than wallets...difficult to come by though, as no one wanted to be the patsy to go get them.

Another 'it doesn't matter 'cause that guy is out of the business' notion is 'vintage' drum mics weren't so much the topology of the equipment but the sheer number of mics used...4-6 mics on the entire kit, plus ambience, vs 4-6 on the kick alone...

Ken Morgan

Please...Give It A Rest

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bigbone

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,249 Member Since:27/01/2011

#10 [url]

Dec 29 15 11:49 AM

soapfoot wrote:
Musing aloud--




Why did/do ribbons get to be the great signifier of "vintageness" in microphones?



 


Could be, and i'm not sure, that all those pictures from the 50's-60's era with singer and ribbon microphones
in front ot them might be a reason.

JN

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fenris

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,450 Member Since:26/01/2011

#11 [url]

Dec 29 15 12:12 PM

A lot of 50's and 60's recordings that use one of the "Big Five" condensers have a distinctive treble signature that says "vintage" to me. It's most apparent on baritone male vocals on a U47. But I don't hear it on modern recordings that use the same mics. I think it's partly the recording chain and partly the change in vocal styles.

The vocals on Joe Meek productions that use an ELAM 251 have a different effect, they sound strikingly "new." When the vocals come in, I get a distinct visual image of a film projection snapping into focus. Supposedly the ELAM 251 wasn't popular when it was new because the output and treble response was too hot for the recording equipment of the time.

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gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,170 Member Since:23/10/2013

#12 [url]

Dec 30 15 11:20 AM

Brad, I think it was also because those Reslo and Oktava ribbons were kind of low hanging fruit in the 90's...sort of budget mics that you could get a different, quasi-vintage sound. Then when the Royer R121 and later the AEA R84 came out, they were still at a lower price range than a classic tube mic. Probably more "vintage" sounding than the chinese import condensers that were beginning to flood the market.

I agree with you, I associate the sound of my favorite classic records more with the sound of C12, 251, M49/M249, U47/48, U67/M269, even U87 and 414's....

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gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,170 Member Since:23/10/2013

#13 [url]

Dec 30 15 3:38 PM

fenris wrote:
A lot of 50's and 60's recordings that use one of the "Big Five" condensers have a distinctive treble signature that says "vintage" to me. It's most apparent on baritone male vocals on a U47. But I don't hear it on modern recordings that use the same mics. I think it's partly the recording chain and partly the change in vocal styles.


 

The top end on the classic condensers, or closely related mics, sure seems to be extra special with the telefunken or tab preamps, even some of the solidstate ones. Not that API, Neve, 990 based, or other beloved designs sound bad or anything... But those Neumanns and the AKG C12, 251, sound so right through the v72 (and related) type pres that I wonder if that's what was used while developing them.

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,629 Member Since:26/01/2011

#15 [url]

Dec 30 15 5:04 PM

Bob, do you know how the Basie Decca set from the late 30's would have been recorded? How many mics, which mics?

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bob olhsson

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,343 Member Since:25/01/2011

#16 [url]

Dec 30 15 5:37 PM

Probably one RCA 44 covering "rhythm section," i.e. bass, piano, guitar and drums along with the bleed into the ensemble and soloist mikes! Major label studios typically had only 4 inputs until the early to mid '50s. When we did our Nashville A-Team reunion session using Bill Porter's setup (and with him at the console) it was pretty obvious that a lone 57 in the middle of the room could have recorded the "Nashville Sound."

www.audiomastery.com Bob's room 615 562-4346 georgetownmasters.com Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233 www.thewombforums.com

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wireline

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,123 Member Since:24/01/2011

#17 [url]

Dec 30 15 6:33 PM

Imagine: minimal mics, bleed, and good recording rooms....

What a friggin concept. Someone should try that sometime

Ken Morgan

Please...Give It A Rest

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,398 Member Since:04/02/2011

#18 [url]

Dec 30 15 8:31 PM

wireline wrote:
Imagine: minimal mics, bleed, and good recording rooms....

What a friggin concept. Someone should try that sometime

It does still happen.

If more of the folks who lament the passing of the "good old days" paid attention to "the good new days" and spent some energy investigating new recordings, it might happen even more!

 

brad allen williams

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wireline

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,123 Member Since:24/01/2011

#19 [url]

Dec 30 15 9:31 PM

Spare me the lesson. There are only so many hours of the day in which to 'investigate' new anything.

Tongue in cheek is a wonderful tool, when recognized as such.

Bye

Ken Morgan

Please...Give It A Rest

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,398 Member Since:04/02/2011

#20 [url]

Dec 30 15 9:51 PM

You know what, I was probably a bit out of line there. My bad.

I'm about four glasses of wine in, and a little too unfiltered!

brad allen williams

Last Edited By: soapfoot Dec 30 15 11:37 PM. Edited 1 time.

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