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barry hufker

Diamond Forever

Posts: 12,188 Member Since:26/01/2011

#1 [url]

Sep 11 16 11:19 AM

Here's the essence: "Having experimented with all the known substitute tubes for the VF14M, our ideas turned towards developing a circuit in which the characteristics of a brand-new tube were simulated rather than relying on the compromise of a vacuum tube "somewhat like" the original."

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gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,162 Member Since:23/10/2013

#3 [url]

Sep 13 16 9:59 AM

Yeah, sure sounds along the lines of the Grosser solidstate valve replacement. (I think I'm remembering that right, maybe it was some other tech.)

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mdm

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,736 Member Since:27/01/2011

#5 [url]

Oct 6 16 4:02 PM

An EF12 sounds pretty good, IMO.. close to a vF14 at half voltage on the filament but the VF14 has a a different texture to it, not necessarily better but different

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maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,136 Member Since:23/01/2011

#6 [url]

Oct 11 16 9:27 AM

mdm wrote:
An EF12 sounds pretty good, IMO.. close to a vF14 at half voltage on the filament but the VF14 has a a different texture to it, not necessarily better but different

I'll preface this by saying yes--I am fully aware of all the internet squabbling about how an EF14 is, sonically, not the same as a VF14; it seems to me like this discussion becomes more 'pie in the sky' every day due to the lack of availability of VF14's.  

I have a pair of U-47 'tribute' mics where they were built the same way by the same guy a couple of months apart--the intention was to build a fairly matched pair.  After the topic someone (Max?) started a couple of years ago about EF14 vs EF12, I had the mic maker switch one mic to an EF12.  It changed the character of the mic enough that I elected to leave the EF12 in because it became another useful 'flavor' in my toolkit.  When compared to the EF14 mic, the EF12 mic's character is less aggressive/forceful, less 'barrel-chested', more open & feels less dark than the EF14 version.  The EF12 mic gets at least as much use on vocals as the EF14 one... maybe more.  Sonically, it kind of sits midway between the EF14 mic and my (prototype) ELA-M250 'tribute' mic.  

I feel like getting a good-sounding tube is KEY to, particularly, having good-sounding large diaphragm tube mics for use on vocals.  In my somewhat limited experience, every tube has its own signature, although I found 5 Star GE 6072's to fall into a couple of families sonically.  If someone could come up with a way to substitute an accurately-performing replacements of excellent examples of the 'unobtanium' tubes it could be a GREAT thing for the microphone world.  I'm interested to hear more about these products.  

Last Edited By: maarvold Oct 11 16 9:35 AM. Edited 2 times.

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,618 Member Since:26/01/2011

#7 [url]

Oct 11 16 10:19 AM

... I found 5 Star GE 6072's to fall into a couple of families sonically. 

Could you expand on tha Mike?
 

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maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,136 Member Since:23/01/2011

#8 [url]

Oct 12 16 8:43 AM

seth wrote:

... I found 5 Star GE 6072's to fall into a couple of families sonically. 

Could you expand on tha Mike?
 

 
When I had my 250-inspired mics built, I auditioned probably 7 or 8 GE 5 Star 6072's ( I now probably own a dozen).  I didn't keep any extensive notes, but put a note with each tube that listed it's 'sonic personality' The one I picked sounded really natural and pleasing to the ear.  I remember that there was at least one other one that had a similar flavor, but wasn't as good.  I also found several that had a sort of brightish, upper mid focus which definitely seemed like a family grouping to me... there were at least 3 of these, maybe even 4.  I don't specifivally remember the character of the rest.  

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ryanstreber

Gold Finger

Posts: 382 Member Since:28/01/2011

#9 [url]

May 27 17 9:52 PM

I thought I'd update this thread, because I actually bought a couple of the Phaedra "AC701"s to try out in two of the M49 builds that I made. I haven't had any opportunity to compare them against real AC701s, but I have been happy with how they sound in my mics. I had been using 6S6Bs before. The Phaedra 701s are maybe a tiny bit "harder" sounding than the 6S6Bs, but they're definitely quieter and don't fundamentally change the sound of the mics (which I like very much.) I was having a lot of problems with consistency and longevity on the russian tubes; in one sense it's not a big deal considering how cheap they are, but I was getting sick of the mics being unreliable. I'm hoping that that won't be an issue with the Phaedras installed, but I guess time will tell.

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in with an actual user report. They shipped very quickly and Phaedra seemed really responsive and helpful with a few questions that I had. I'd be very curious to hear a report from someone who replaced an orignal telefunken 701 with one of these guys.

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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,770 Member Since:26/01/2011

#10 [url]

May 28 17 8:53 AM

ryanstreber wrote:
I thought I'd update this thread, because I actually bought a couple of the Phaedra "AC701"s to try out in two of the M49 builds that I made. I haven't had any opportunity to compare them against real AC701s, but I have been happy with how they sound in my mics. I had been using 6S6Bs before. The Phaedra 701s are maybe a tiny bit "harder" sounding than the 6S6Bs, but they're definitely quieter and don't fundamentally change the sound of the mics (which I like very much.) I was having a lot of problems with consistency and longevity on the russian tubes; in one sense it's not a big deal considering how cheap they are, but I was getting sick of the mics being unreliable. I'm hoping that that won't be an issue with the Phaedras installed, but I guess time will tell.

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in with an actual user report. They shipped very quickly and Phaedra seemed really responsive and helpful with a few questions that I had. I'd be very curious to hear a report from someone who replaced an orignal telefunken 701 with one of these guys.

Ryan, thanks for the update, good to know. Please let's us know how they compare in the long run.

Can I ask who's M49 kit are you using?  I want to build 4 more of these myself.  

I really wish I had Oliver make more for me, who knew he'd leave us so soon.

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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ryanstreber

Gold Finger

Posts: 382 Member Since:28/01/2011

#11 [url]

May 28 17 12:10 PM

One of them is a TLM49 conversion a la Oliver that I did myself; the other is based on the Flea mechanical kit (which is really nice but may not be available anymore) and Oliver's schematic.

I also built a couple of Oliver's kits, but I haven't ever been able to get rid of some low level buzz on these. All four of these mics use the same components and circuit (also all use AMI power supplies), but only the AMI kits have this noise. It seems like there's something up with Oliver's body kit that I can't figure out which is causing the noise, but I'm sill able to use them despite this and they work very well otherwise. Does AMI still sell them?

Back to the topic of this thread, one other experience I should mention: just for the hell of it, I tried putting one of the Phaedra AC701s in my Flea 49 (actualy Flea, not the kit that I built), and all I got was wild oscillation at the output. It's strange because the Flea uses the 6S6B as well and appears to use the original M49 circuit. But for reasons that I couldn't figure out, the Phaedra DID NOT work in that mic. I asked the folks at Phaedra about this and they had no ideas why it would be, but just passing along my exprerience.

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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,770 Member Since:26/01/2011

#12 [url]

May 29 17 6:47 AM

Thanks Ryan. I have not looked into AMI since Oliver passed really. Hard to believe almost 3 years now...

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,380 Member Since:04/02/2011

#14 [url]

May 30 17 7:18 AM

May have been one of the only, if not THE only person in the world, to know as much as he did, is my sense. In addition to a wonderful person, we lost a library worth of information when we lost Oliver. I only got to meet him in person once but we corresponded several times. He was a special person.

brad allen williams

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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,770 Member Since:26/01/2011

#15 [url]

May 30 17 10:10 AM

soapfoot wrote:
May have been one of the only, if not THE only person in the world, to know as much as he did, is my sense. In addition to a wonderful person, we lost a library worth of information when we lost Oliver. I only got to meet him in person once but we corresponded several times. He was a special person.

I couldn't agree more.

Oliver and I would talk a couple times a month, everything from tubes to gardening to distilling alcohol.  His knowledge was vast. He was a true Renaissance man in every sense of the word. He was a kind, gentle soul.

I miss talking to him, he was one of the few that "got me".

I need me four more M49 sounding mic's... Unfortunately I cannot afford original Neumanns.  I guess the Flea sounds just about spot on from what I've been told. Any other suggestions?  I was thinking of trying to build 4 but my time is so limited already. 

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,770 Member Since:26/01/2011

#17 [url]

May 30 17 7:19 PM

compasspnt wrote:
We will have a Lucas CS series microphone in that vein "fairly soon."

Now that is great to hear.

Ill keep an eye out on the Lucas forum.

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,162 Member Since:23/10/2013

#19 [url]

May 30 17 9:11 PM

ryanstreber wrote:

I also built a couple of Oliver's kits, but I haven't ever been able to get rid of some low level buzz on these. All four of these mics use the same components and circuit (also all use AMI power supplies), but only the AMI kits have this noise. It seems like there's something up with Oliver's body kit that I can't figure out which is causing the noise, but I'm sill able to use them despite this and they work very well otherwise. Does AMI still sell them?




 

I have a mic Oliver built, which used the kit body, platform, PSU, neumann k49... no hum, very quiet in fact! I don't think there is a ghost in the body kits. Maybe check for continuity of ground throughout the circuit, from mic to PSU?

AMI does still make the kits.

Last Edited By: gtoledo3 May 30 17 9:13 PM. Edited 1 time.

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ryanstreber

Gold Finger

Posts: 382 Member Since:28/01/2011

#20 [url]

May 31 17 6:48 PM

Yeah, I've been over my kits dozens of times, and I've had my tech Ken McKim go over them as well. Neither of us can figure it out. Very strange.

Just to echo everyone else - Oliver was truly one-of-a-kind and incredible. I hear his voice in my head every time I use one of my CS1s or kits from him. He is very present in my studio.

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