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morespaceecho

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Posts: 2,302 Member Since: 29/01/2011

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Oct 24 16 6:08 PM

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it's not a done deal yet, but ms morespace and i had our offer accepted on a house, so after 16 years here at my loft in the city, we're moving to the country. i'm inheriting this space for my new mastering room:

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it's roughly 30 feet long, 20 feet wide with about 18'6" usable floor space, ceiling is maybe 14' at the apex. 

on the other side of the wall in the first pic is a 2 car garage (which will no doubt become the drum room eventually, but first things first). on the other side of the wall in the second pic is this:

image

the house is probably 50' away. the closest neighbor is at least 70' away, probably more like 100'. from inside the house you can't hear the traffic at all. i'm just mastering, i'm almost never over 85db, so i feel like my isolation/soundproofing needs are relatively minimal. 

this all just happened, so i don't have a plan yet, but my basic idea is to keep the room as big as possible and have tons of bass trapping as needed. i'd like to keep the ceiling joists visible, so i'm thinking a couple layers of drywall between the joists, then rockwool/703/fabric. similarly, layers of drywall between the wall studs, insulation, then interior walls. i'd really rather not have an interior ceiling, which i know defeats the purpose of having interior walls, but i'd really like to keep the ceiling height i have, and again, i don't think i need to build a fortress to keep from bothering anyone. 

so before i go on any longer, what do you think? what would you do? is my thinking here reasonable?

also, there's a wood stove in the space. i'm not sure if i'd be insane to have a wood stove in a mastering room, or if i'd be crazy not to if it was already there. we're in new england, i've spent the last decade and a half in a huge freezing loft space. a toasty studio is pretty appealing.

thanks for reading this far. appreciate any and all help!
 

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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morespaceecho

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Posts: 2,302 Member Since:29/01/2011

#2 [url]

Oct 24 16 7:58 PM

thank you!

i walked in and thought:

1. this build is super clean (a godsend compared to building here at the loft and lots of other dilapidated buildings we've seen)
2. i've gotta be able to make this space sound good, i mean c'mon.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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jimkissling

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Posts: 255 Member Since:02/02/2011

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Oct 25 16 10:44 AM

And, it looks like it already has a compressor in place.

What a great setting! If you have the time, please do a thread of the build out.

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morespaceecho

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Posts: 2,302 Member Since:29/01/2011

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Oct 26 16 1:21 PM

thanks guys!

some rudimentary questions:

1. if i'm adding layers of drywall to the existing plywood outer walls/ceiling (between the studs/joists), can i just screw it directly onto the plywood or do i need a vapor barrier first? likewise, the back wall in the first pic, you can see the bottom half of it is cinder blocks, what do i do there? can i just glue drywall onto that or...?

2. the space has it's own electrical panel (yes!) and all the wiring is run (yes!), but obviously it's all run in the exterior walls, and i'll need it on the interior walls. is it ok to have the last few feet of wiring running from the exterior walls to the outlets on the inner walls or do i need to pull all the wiring and run it through the interior walls? i'm assuming the latter and that's fine.

3. does the 38% "rule" apply in really long rooms? that'd put me at around 11'4" back from the speakers, which seems far. i'm about 8'6" back now and that feels about right.

4. i don't know what i'm going to do as far as bass trapping at the back (and front as well), but it's going to be thick. probably mostly rockwool....do i leave an airgap behind it or just fill up the whole space? 



 

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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gold

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Oct 31 16 7:55 PM

That's a nice looking space. A great size for a mastering room. My basic approach would be to stuff the ceiling full of soft stuff and staple a fabric ceiling to the rafters. For the side walls I would stuff insulation between the studs but I wouldn't put up interior hard walls unless you think you need them for heat retention in winter. I would cover the walls with fabric and put hard stuff up as needed to make it sound good. By not making hard side walls you can let the bass escape out the walls since you won't bother the neighbors.

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scullyfan

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Oct 31 16 8:34 PM

I second gold's approach: A foot of acoustically exposed fluffy stuff in the ceiling, countered with judicious sidewall insulation, augmented with hard surfaces here and there, can go a long way taming an available space for music recording or production. I let the bass find its own way out of the room.

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morespaceecho

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Oct 31 16 11:04 PM

now that is really interesting. i hadn't considered not putting up hard interior walls! but certainly letting bass escape is part of my plan...we specifically looked for houses that had a detached building and where the neighbors weren't close. i looked at the house again on google earth and the closest neighbor is more like 120' feet at least. i really can't imagine where some bass leaking out of my room is gonna bother anyone. 

so my basic plan at the moment is 2 layers of 1/2" drywall between the rafters/studs. i know 5/8" would be better, but i'm a scrawny twerp and 1/2" is just so much easier to deal with. i was going to just do 1 layer of 1/2" for the interior walls (bass would just go through this anyway right?), but if i don't have inner walls at all i could go 3 layers on the exterior if needed. 

for the ceiling i'm thinking rockwool between the rafters and then 703 covered in fabric. if i cut that just right it'll stay in place between the rafters and it looks cool. that's what i have here now. and then some sort of deep bass trap up at the apex. i'm gonna add more collar ties, so it'll be easy to do something up there.

for the walls i was thinking do the thick r30 pink fluffy and then an inner frame with rockwool. i guess with or without a layer of drywall, we'll see!

i have at least 80 sheets of 2"x2'x4' 703, at least 30 of those with the fsk facing still on them. and a ton of rockwool. all that's coming with me. and i have a big QRD diffusor for the back wall and some polys as well.

i'd really like to keep the front wall reflective like in northward designs...i kinda feel like i need thomas to tell me if that's a good idea for a low budget DIY project though!

here's a question i could really use some help on: the back wall in the first pic, you can see that the bottom half of it is a cinderblock wall. on the other side of that wall is the garage. i'm assuming no one builds a garage with a basement, so behind that cinder block wall is the earth. also you can sort of see in the pic, there's a cement foundation wall along most of the long walls of the space. it's highest on the garage end. 

the second pic, the short wall is facing the back yard. so my question is which way would be better as the front of the studio? is it better to have the backs of the speakers going into a big ass bass trap and then into the backyard, or into a big ass basstrap and into the ground/garage? my feeling is it would probably be better to have it going into the backyard, on the other hand having it all go through the bass trap at the back and then into the yard doesn't sound bad either. 

thanks guys!

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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gold

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#11 [url]

Oct 31 16 11:44 PM

You want as close to free field response as you can get. I'd loose the hard ceiling and not stiffen anything if possible. Face towards the yard.

For the ceiling I would hang 'clothes lines' across the ceiling at regular intervals. Then poke holes through the corners of the 703 and hang the panels loosely from the clothes lines. Put some chicken wire over the rafters and put a layer of soft material parallel to the floor. Then cover it with fabric.

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morespaceecho

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#14 [url]

Nov 1 16 12:07 PM

thanks. that's what i thought too. that may prove to be logistically challenging w/r/t the entry door amongst other things but i'll figure it out.

another question: i'm definitely putting the drywall between the rafters because i want to keep them visible (and because lifting full sheets of drywall over my head isn't something i can do). for the side walls, i was also going to put the drywall between the studs, so i wouldn't have a 3 leaf system once i did the interior hard walls. if i'm NOT gonna have hard interior walls, can i just put insulation between the studs and put the drywall up like normal people do? besides losing 7 1/2" of space is there any other penalty to this? cause it'd sure be a whole lot quicker and easier than cutting up a zillion 16" strips of drywall. 

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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gold

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#17 [url]

Nov 1 16 1:04 PM

Like I said, you want as close to free field response as you can get. If you could sit outside it would be ideal. You want the room to be as close to looking like there are no walls. If you won't bother the neighbors and it's quiet enough for you then I'd leave the structure as light and loose as posssible.

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gold

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#19 [url]

Nov 1 16 2:38 PM

morespaceecho wrote:
 as it is now i could hear the traffic in there.
 

Ahh, too bad. If you stuff the ceiling you might not need drywall there. I'd really try to avoid putting drywall above you. I like your idea of adding mass directly on the outer wall to avoid setting up a resonant cavity.

In my room I decided to leave the widows at the front of the room uncovered to let the bass escape. Concequently my room is noisy. I hear the street loud and clear. I've never worked in a quiet room so I'm used to it. It probably would be a no go for a lot of people though. The only downside is I monitor at about 95dB SPL.

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morespaceecho

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Nov 1 16 3:37 PM

yeah i mean the building right now is just studs, plywood and vinyl siding, there's nothing to it. 

there'll be drywall on the ceiling between the rafters, but it's all gonna be covered with rockwool/703 so the ceiling will be soft. 

i guess avoiding resonant cavities is a good enough reason to do the side walls the difficult way rather than the normal quick and easy way. that's fine.

95db is paint peeling! i'm around 83ish. i don't really like listening much louder than that. except for neurosis records. or maybe 'dopesmoker' haha.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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