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weedywet

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,957 Member Since: 20/01/2011

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Nov 3 16 1:08 PM

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I'm involved in putting together a studio for someone, and I'm looking at foldback mixer systems

I've used both the PrivateQ and Aviom systems before (although not the latest itertions of Axioms).
and I did one session, as a bass guitar player, where they had the Hearback system.

I don't think there is any question that he won't want a personal mixer sort of system like this; so let's bypass the "he'd be better off with just a stereo mix" argument please.
One can always send a foldback mix to a stereo channel of these mixers as an option.

but there seem to be more options out there now and I'm wondering if you guys here have some favourites, or warnings against!

Anyone using the Hear system?
the newer Aviom?

PriivateQ is probably out, as a) it's pricey, and b) his customer suport is way too spotty for me (even though I like his system, sonically)


thanks

Last Edited By: weedywet Nov 3 16 1:12 PM. Edited 1 time

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,401 Member Since:04/02/2011

#4 [url]

Nov 3 16 2:52 PM

I dislike the most common Hearback system. I don't think they sound all that great, the user interface isn't the most intuitive (with its "link" switches and odd pairing/placement of knobs), and that infernal limiter knob (has to be fully clockwise to be out of circuit)...

I think Hear might be making a new version now? I haven't tried that one if so.

I love the PrivateQ, I've found it to be the best-sounding solution and the most enjoyable and comfortable to use as a player.

I've only ever used the Aviom in some live performance (and broadcast) scenarios, but I also didn't feel it sounded as good as the Mytek, and didn't like the user interface much, either. I do like it more than the Hearback.

brad allen williams

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weedywet

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,957 Member Since:20/01/2011

#5 [url]

Nov 3 16 2:55 PM

that was my feeling, on all counts as well.

but there are new versions of everything out there, and, as I said, I have problems recommending the Mytek to a client for other reasons.

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d gauss

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,262 Member Since:17/02/2011

#7 [url]

Nov 3 16 7:40 PM

weedywet wrote:
I think expecting each musician to come ready with an iPhone and the app, and the understanding to use it, is unreasonable

i meant you actually buying the tablets, not having folks bring them.  i didn't compare price unit to unit, but it doesn't seem unreasonable.  fwiw, i use an android tablet with an allen heath mixer for a FOH gig all the time and it is bonehead simple and works great.  the 3d party app i use is this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.davidgiga1993.mixingstation.ah_qupro

but the A&H ios monitoring app is this:  http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/qu-you/

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compasspnt

Diamond Forever

Posts: 21,218 Member Since:08/01/2011

#9 [url]

Nov 4 16 1:04 AM

podgorny wrote:
There isn't currently a multi-channel headphone system being made which I would prefer over a system assembled out of small analog mixers.

I almost posted a very similar sentiment.

My fave sounding system we ever used was made up ourselves from several little 8 channel Fostex mixers we had hanging around.

Then we got the Furman small system, which was pretty cheap, so we went to the big Furman system, which was much better.

But nothing ever beat the analogue mixers.

All  of these new systems are crazy expensive.

Anyone try the new Behringer?


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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,401 Member Since:04/02/2011

#10 [url]

Nov 4 16 2:19 AM

Another thing to consider with the Mytek system (though it seems to be out of the running, at least provisionally)-- the expense of all the DL cables is non-trivial. If you have a pinning tool and are willing to pin the DLs yourself, that will save a bit. But long runs of multi-pair is still not cheap, on top of the already-considerable cost of the system.

We got an entire second system used. I don't think we've ever had a major problem with support of our units, even the system we bought used (which was an earlier generation, slightly). However, I've never been the one dealing with Mytek directly, so I can't say.

Another thing-- the Mytek isn't foolproof-- you have to make sure you turn the central unit off before connecting or disconnecting units. Hot-swapping is a bad idea.

brad allen williams

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kb s1

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,588 Member Since:18/01/2011

#11 [url]

Nov 4 16 5:30 AM

I have used one of the older Aviom systems and I must admit - was suprised how much I liked it.
One of the best bits in my experience was running a separate click track channel when recording several people at once.
That can often be the trickiest thing to setup in a way that keeps everyone happy.
I don't think the audio quality was ever quite as good as a straight aux routed stereo analogue setup but there is always that tradeoff between quality/convenience/flexibility.

There must be some Dante based options now that could be suitable though?
I would expect that would allow for huge flexibility if the network is in place - if not running the HP setup the routing could be switched to remote pres etc.

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kb s1

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,588 Member Since:18/01/2011

#12 [url]

Nov 4 16 5:31 AM

Further thought - We have an A&H GS24 desk in place just now.
That would put me off one of the options you have posted.....

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knoppenman

Tin Man

Posts: 43 Member Since:03/07/2012

#13 [url]

Nov 4 16 5:44 AM

I decided on a Behringer Powerplay P16 and 5 16M mixers for a mobile set three years and about 30 sessions ago. I thought I'd change to Mytek or the likes when the set would be on break even. But:
Never had a real problem. Had to reset once during a session. I have to say there's one cat5 input on one of the mixers that's not working well since last session... I have no experience with repairs but I think it's all standard...
The sound is good and the use for the musicians is very easy. More than loud enough.
And the price is very affordable. So I'm not changin anything. I even think of going over to the system in my studio.
I carry a spare P16 and two 16m's because of the Behringer name and fame... Suspicious me:)
I hope this helps,
Frans

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,401 Member Since:04/02/2011

#14 [url]

Nov 4 16 8:29 AM

One other thing we might at least acknowledge: the Hear, Aviom, and Behringer are (to my knowledge) all digital systems that require an AD-DA conversion step, whereas that Mytek is an analog(ue) system.

Question for those more informed than me-- I'd assume the Hear, Aviom and Behringer systems each introduce some amount of latency? Have any of them published figures on that? I've detected (and been mildly bummed by) even 64 samples at 48kHz sample rate when sitting behind a drum kit (less bothersome on guitar).

EDIT: Idle curiosity got the best of me and I looked up the figures for all three--

The Hearback system lists its latency at 1.5ms
The Aviom lists <1ms (880µs to be precise)
The Behringer lists <1ms but isn't more specific.
The new Hearback PRO (which I've never tried) beats all other digital contenders, claiming an input-to-output latency of <0.25ms (<250µs).

All of the above are probably low enough to not cause any major temporal problems, though the Hearback PRO beats the rest handily, the Aviom and Behringer are in the middle, and the original HearBack is worst. Even at that, 1.5ms is similar to the timing distance of being about 1.68 feet away at average speed of sound; 880µs similar to being a foot or less away, and 250µs is like being mere inches away. 

Still not "theoretically" ideal, but unlikely to cause major difference in timing cues to players.

This is of course to say nothing of thr AD>DA quality of any of the options.

The Mytek, being analog(ue), is zero latency.
 

brad allen williams

Last Edited By: soapfoot Nov 4 16 8:43 AM. Edited 3 times.

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nobtwiddler

Gold Finger

Posts: 391 Member Since:04/02/2011

#15 [url]

Nov 5 16 10:55 AM

I've owned just about all of the models that were available.
Ended up with the Fostex 16 ch. rig. With about 10 of their little personal mixers.
It was the best sounding setup that was reasonably priced at the time.
Sadly not being made anymore.

For me it has to be analog. And SIMPLE to operate.
The funny this is, we put the power of the mix in each artists hands, which in theory free us up to do more important things then make headphone mixes for each musician, but I gotta tell ya, sometimes they are so confused by the mixer, and you would be totally blown away if you listened to some of the mixes they created for themselves to listen to.
It's really laughable.

But I'm not fully versed in all the newer products that William listed,, some of them look very interesting.
From the old group of offerings, if it wasn't the Fostex, then it would probably be the private Q

Cheers Paul www.millbrooksoundstudio.com 

A coupla, two, tree, credits...http://www.discogs.com/search/?q=paul+orofino&type=all

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,401 Member Since:04/02/2011

#16 [url]

Nov 5 16 11:21 AM

nobtwiddler wrote:

The funny this is, we put the power of the mix in each artists hands, which in theory free us up to do more important things then make headphone mixes for each musician, but I gotta tell ya, sometimes they are so confused by the mixer, and you would be totally blown away if you listened to some of the mixes they created for themselves to listen to.
It's really laughable.

 

It can really be astonishing!

One thing that can sometimes be effective, I find, is to make one of the stereo sources on the cue mixer the same mix I'm listening to in the control room. That way, the musician can start with that baseline, and then add in more of the other sources that they feel like they need.

Even when given full control of the cue mix, I find that the best, most sensitive and musical players also tend to make the best cue mixes for themselves. Probably because they're good listeners.

 

brad allen williams

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seaneldon

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Posts: 314 Member Since:07/02/2011

#17 [url]

Nov 7 16 5:17 PM

I've got the most experience with the HearBack rig. It actually sounds very good and is pretty flexible. The company also stands behind the product in a big way. They've overnighted me mixers, parts, etc. without blinking while I was mid-session.

Make sure none of the limiters on the mixers are on. They sound like sunburn feels.

Content & Curation Toiler at http://www.reverb.com
Chief Idiot at http://www.seaneldon.com

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ryanstreber

Gold Finger

Posts: 383 Member Since:28/01/2011

#19 [url]

Apr 23 17 12:48 PM

Digging up another old thread here, but does anyone have experience with the Elite Core PM16 system? I need to replace our Hearback system and am not liking any of the options I see out there. Curious if this thing might be decent? I'd love to go the Mytek route, but cabling throughout multiple rooms is just going to be too expensive, unfortunately. I was about to take the plunge on an Aviom 320-based setup, but I want to see if there are better-sounding options before jumping in.

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