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andychamp

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Posts: 279 Member Since: 01/02/2011

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Nov 27 16 6:30 PM

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Hi there,
an upcoming session calls for the drums to sound similar to a drum machine, while being played by a live drummer.
Triggers and samples are not an option. Nor is single-tracking the drums ("Heart  Of Glass").
I thought about using lots of dampening and separation during takes ("Billie Jean"), using gates, limiters, transient shapers and bit reducer plugins to limit the dynamics. Changing the pitch of the recorded sounds might work, too...
Any other suggestions? 

André Champaloux 

"The biggest question this thread has actually raised is: When do we start to serve the artist more than our insecurities?" - Fletcher

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ruairi

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,622 Member Since:10/02/2011

#1 [url]

Nov 27 16 7:12 PM

Try using the real kick to trigger a gated sine wave in the key of the song, and the snare to trigger gated noise (EQing this can be fun). Both have worked for me in the past.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,169 Member Since:04/02/2011

#2 [url]

Nov 27 16 7:15 PM

Favor the spot mics? Gobos around the kit, close mic even the cymbals, no overheads or rooms?

Gated reverbs to simulate chopped up samples? 

Might even be worth experimenting with bit crushing/aliasing or recording with poor converters at low bit depths and sample rates?

brad allen williams

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andychamp

Gold Finger

Posts: 279 Member Since:01/02/2011

#4 [url]

Nov 27 16 9:52 PM

gtoledo3 wrote:
Ring modulation on cymbals can help make them sound like a drum machine, especially on ride and crashes.

I love ring mods. and frequency shifters, never thought of using them in this way. Thanks!

André Champaloux 

"The biggest question this thread has actually raised is: When do we start to serve the artist more than our insecurities?" - Fletcher

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extrememixing

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,295 Member Since:02/02/2011

#5 [url]

Nov 27 16 11:10 PM

andychamp wrote:
Hi there,
an upcoming session calls for the drums to sound similar to a drum machine, while being played by a live drummer.
Triggers and samples are not an option. Nor is single-tracking the drums ("Heart  Of Glass").
I thought about using lots of dampening and separation during takes ("Billie Jean"), using gates, limiters, transient shapers and bit reducer plugins to limit the dynamics. Changing the pitch of the recorded sounds might work, too...
Any other suggestions? 
I guess I'd just use the Glen/Andy Johns three mic technique and call it a day.

But really, why do you have to give up so many options, like triggering samples?  Is that really any different than using a gate and a sine wave or white noise?  I would use a sample of the drum machine you are trying to copy and make it happen.  Nobody gets a solo button at home.  It's more important that it sound good than that you obey artificial rules that just make it more difficult to get it sounding the way you want.  And by the way, TRIGGERS AND SAMPLES ARE A PART OF LIVE SOUND, and have been for a few decades.

Maybe they'd like it if, instead of using EQ and Compression and Reverb/Delay, you achieved the sound for all of the instruments and vocals only by reamping it in the studio and using mic placement to get the job done.  I'd recommend that for the whole record.  It's what I'd do.

Steve

Last Edited By: extrememixing Nov 27 16 11:17 PM. Edited 1 time.

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andychamp

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Posts: 279 Member Since:01/02/2011

#7 [url]

Nov 28 16 6:04 AM

 But really, why do you have to give up so many options, like triggering samples?  

A) time and logistics
B) artistic decision: the rest of the album IS in fact all sample-based beats, arranged in Ableton Live that I then mixed on my system. The artist has in the meantime assembled a band, and wants that song to fit in sonically with the others. The similarity needn't be perfect (there is some variety in the samples already), but the general aesthetic and feel should be there.
C) fun

André Champaloux 

"The biggest question this thread has actually raised is: When do we start to serve the artist more than our insecurities?" - Fletcher

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owlander

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Posts: 1,025 Member Since:27/01/2011

#9 [url]

Nov 28 16 9:44 AM

andychamp wrote:
Hi there,
an upcoming session calls for the drums to sound similar to a drum machine, while being played by a live drummer.
Triggers and samples are not an option. Nor is single-tracking the drums ("Heart  Of Glass").
I thought about using lots of dampening and separation during takes ("Billie Jean"), using gates, limiters, transient shapers and bit reducer plugins to limit the dynamics. Changing the pitch of the recorded sounds might work, too...
Any other suggestions? 
 

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morespaceecho

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Posts: 2,243 Member Since:29/01/2011

#10 [url]

Nov 28 16 11:00 AM

if you have a shitty little video camera mic or similar, put that right up close to the side of the snare. adjust mic level for desired amount of distortion. IME this is 1000x more interesting and entertaining than anything i've ever been able to do inside the computer (bitcrushing, etc).

the tchad blake sansamp thing is probably worth a try too.

acoustically, try a piece of paper or two on the snare.

to ruiari's suggestion of triggering a sine off the real bass drum, mda's subsynth plug makes this easy (it's free). 

or, with the right tuning and head combination you can just make the kick itself sound pretty much like an 808.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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ericb

Gold Finger

Posts: 663 Member Since:01/02/2011

#11 [url]

Nov 28 16 6:13 PM

Sine triggering. White or Pink noise triggering! You can take this a step further and CONVOLVE the drums with a shot of noise sample.

A deep snare sound can be done with a second head upside down resting on the drum, or a wallet taped, t-shirt..

Pitch shifting. Distortion.

Never tried the ring mod thing. I suppose that bit crushing would work as well to emulate the old machines.

When I need the drums as unreal, huge and as present in the speakers as possible, I go mostly with noise and sample triggering, and of course reverb. Judicious use of clipping and distortion.

You could also re-amp drums, sometimes that works.

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extrememixing

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Posts: 2,295 Member Since:02/02/2011

#13 [url]

Nov 28 16 7:00 PM

andychamp wrote:
 But really, why do you have to give up so many options, like triggering samples?  

A) time and logistics
B) artistic decision: the rest of the album IS in fact all sample-based beats, arranged in Ableton Live that I then mixed on my system. The artist has in the meantime assembled a band, and wants that song to fit in sonically with the others. The similarity needn't be perfect (there is some variety in the samples already), but the general aesthetic and feel should be there.
C) fun
If it's fun to you then that's as good a reason as I can think of to go with something more exotic than using the drum sample that you want it to sound like under the sound of the real drum.

As for time...  I don't know.  I can replace a kick and snare in just a few minutes with the Massey DRT.  I think Slate has Trigger on sale for about $50 right now.  No reason you can't "make" a sine wave or a noise sample and replace the K and Sn that way.  Way faster and more accurate than a noise gate.  I have no idea what you mean by logistics.  According to you, everything you do will happen inside your rig.

But really, why don't you look at it like the Daft Punk record?  Just make the drums sound fantastic.  They will be timeless.  And cool.  And they will fit in.  If they don't, then maybe it's the other songs that need to come up in quality.  I've talked to Mick a few times, and I can tell you for sure that he had a lot of fun making that record.  Do that!

Steve

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andychamp

Gold Finger

Posts: 279 Member Since:01/02/2011

#14 [url]

Nov 28 16 7:40 PM

extrememixing wrote:

andychamp wrote:
 But really, why do you have to give up so many options, like triggering samples?  

A) time and logistics

B) artistic decision: the rest of the album IS in fact all sample-based beats, arranged in Ableton Live that I then mixed on my system. The artist has in the meantime assembled a band, and wants that song to fit in sonically with the others. The similarity needn't be perfect (there is some variety in the samples already), but the general aesthetic and feel should be there.

C) fun

If it's fun to you then that's as good a reason as I can think of to go with something more exotic than using the drum sample that you want it to sound like under the sound of the real drum.

As for time...  I don't know.  I can replace a kick and snare in just a few minutes with the Massey DRT.  I think Slate has Trigger on sale for about $50 right now.  No reason you can't "make" a sine wave or a noise sample and replace the K and Sn that way.  Way faster and more accurate than a noise gate.  I have no idea what you mean by logistics.  According to you, everything you do will happen inside your rig.


But really, why don't you look at it like the Daft Punk record?  Just make the drums sound fantastic.  They will be timeless.  And cool.  And they will fit in.  If they don't, then maybe it's the other songs that need to come up in quality.  I've talked to Mick a few times, and I can tell you for sure that he had a lot of fun making that record.  Do that!


Steve

So, artistic decision counts for nothing? 
Interesting notion...

André Champaloux 

"The biggest question this thread has actually raised is: When do we start to serve the artist more than our insecurities?" - Fletcher

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extrememixing

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,295 Member Since:02/02/2011

#15 [url]

Nov 28 16 9:12 PM

andychamp wrote:

So, artistic decision counts for nothing? 
Interesting notion...
It counts for everything.  I guess the artistic decision I would make is to have the track sound amazing.  It starts after, "But, really...".

It's your recording.  I'll just look forward to hearing how you express yourself.

Steve

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chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,625 Member Since:30/01/2011

#16 [url]

Dec 1 16 5:54 PM

I found this and it sounds like what you are looking for http://www.kvraudio.com/news/bedroom-producer-blog-releases-free-bpb-cassette-drums-for-mac-and-win-vst-and-au-35388


The instruments are based on Bedroom Producers Blog's free Cassette 606, Cassette 808 and Cassette 909 sample packs, featuring the raw "drum machine sounds" provided by Edgar Maguyon, Gregor Zemljic and Reddit user Anderson303.

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andychamp

Gold Finger

Posts: 279 Member Since:01/02/2011

#17 [url]

Dec 4 16 3:12 PM

I read something interesting in another thread:
"But it's really what ever seems right to the one doing it. Just that simple."
But then again, a lot has been said a few weeks ago...
Thanks to everyone who contributed ideas.

André Champaloux 

"The biggest question this thread has actually raised is: When do we start to serve the artist more than our insecurities?" - Fletcher

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andychamp

Gold Finger

Posts: 279 Member Since:01/02/2011

#19 [url]

Dec 29 16 7:05 AM

Four mics ended up in the mix: kick in (RE20), sidestick (57 pointing upwards), hihat (AKG 535) and a RS Reverb Mic through an overdriven tube pre (faded in during some parts). Overhead, snare top&bottom and some other mics remained unused.
Separation was pretty decent and the only processing beside EQ was some heavy parallel squashing. The super punchy and dry 18" kick was a big help in getting the desired tone(s).

André Champaloux 

"The biggest question this thread has actually raised is: When do we start to serve the artist more than our insecurities?" - Fletcher

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