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silvertone

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Dec 3 16 6:41 AM

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Any of you guys use it?  Chuck?  

I have the EMT 140 and 250 and while both a great in their own right I kind of miss the artificial reverb sound of the Lexicon reverbs.  Maybe because I grew up mixing using 224's and 224XL's I got use to that sound.  In fact when the 480 came out I kept using my trusty 224XL because I had grow so accustomed to the sound.  I thought the higher bit rate 480 almost sounded too good. Funny how that can happen.

UAD has it on sale fight now and I'm about to start mixing a jam band I recorded last weekend. So I'm thinking of grabbing the plug in now. I mean 200.00 for a Lexicon reverb... I would have loved to pay that in the past for this sound.  Hell I sold my old, old, old PCM60 for 400.00 two years ago.

Dialing in a sound on any other reverb seems to take me forever these days.  I know if I got the Lex, and it's true to original form, that I would probably be able to work much faster (which is the way I like to work).  Thoughts?

Last Edited By: silvertone Dec 5 16 6:01 AM. Edited 1 time

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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,727 Member Since:26/01/2011

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Dec 3 16 8:52 AM

I don't really know Seth. Other than DMG limitless and equilibrium, the UAD plugs are the only other ones I own (besides Avids plug ins that come with PT).

I was never a plug in fan and that is why Will from UA gave me all their plug ins and a UAD quad card 4 or 5 years ago. I use the 33609 in parallel for a drum and bass compressor and use a a few others like the EMT verbs but that's about it. Every now and again an LA2A gets used on vocals as well. I also use the space echo.

I ask about the Lexicon as it has the Lex plate and hall sound. I haven't really found any other plug ins that give me the Lexicon sound but then again I have certainly not explored them all. Are there other good plugs that will give me the same sound?

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morespaceecho

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Posts: 2,299 Member Since:29/01/2011

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Dec 3 16 11:20 AM

silvertone wrote:
I was never a plug in fan and that is why Will from UA gave me all their plug ins and a UAD quad card 4 or 5 years ago.

 

damn. can you tell WIll that i am also not a plug in fan? i'll pm you my address. thanks!
 

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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extrememixing

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Posts: 2,310 Member Since:02/02/2011

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Dec 3 16 1:57 PM

I think for $200 I'd try the Valhalla Room, Plates, and Vintage reverbs. Then take your wife out for dinner with the $50 you have left. Valhalla does have fully functional demos, I just can't believe how useful the Valhalla plugs are. It's not the Lexicon, I suppose, but then neither is the Lexicon plug in suite. I have that, but use the Valhalla stuff way more. No iLok. You can put them on more than one computer. But the most important thing is that they just always sound great. To me anyway...

Steve

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zmix

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Dec 3 16 5:39 PM

I have used nearly every HW and SW reverb ever made. I feel that the Valhalla reverbs (at least the ones he's marketed so far) are far too dense and just cloud up a mix, Sean used to send them to me and I'd give him feedback, but after they took off he stopped responding at all.
It seems that every recommendation of them on this forum qualifies them as great "for the money".
Like so many modern reverbs, they sound like they were developed and tweaked in isolation to some "ideal" but don't really do what I'm looking for.

I worked for nearly 2 years with UA to get the 224 together, it's 97% there, which is saying alot... especially coming from me...

On the other hand I recently restored my EMT 244 (which is the reverb section of the 250, no other "programs") It's fantastic and I like it better than the UAD 250.
In the interum, I did purchase the PSP 2445 EMT 244 emulation and it's remarkably close to the 244 in that mode...




...

Last Edited By: zmix Dec 3 16 5:42 PM. Edited 1 time.

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extrememixing

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Dec 3 16 6:03 PM

I didn't say "for the money". But I guess did suggest taking his wife out to dinner with the change!

Maybe it's because you're mixing outboard, that you feel they are too dense. In the box, I find that I can use the extra weight. I like the decay and the cascade that they have. They feel good to me.

There was a time when I loved the Lexicon 200! So cool. Never spent much time with a 224, but lots of time with the 480L and the PCM300. I never was a very loyal Lex guy.

Steve

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zmix

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Dec 3 16 6:56 PM

extrememixing wrote:
I didn't say "for the money". But I guess did suggest taking his wife out to dinner with the change!

Maybe it's because you're mixing outboard, that you feel they are too dense. In the box, I find that I can use the extra weight. I like the decay and the cascade that they have. They feel good to me.

There was a time when I loved the Lexicon 200! So cool. Never spent much time with a 224, but lots of time with the 480L and the PCM300. I never was a very loyal Lex guy.

Steve
Uh...yes, you did...!  :)


extrememixing wrote:
I think for $200 I'd try the Valhalla Room, Plates, and Vintage reverbs. Then take your wife out for dinner with the $50 you have left.


And I'd like to know what could you possibly be thinking when you suggest that somehow "mixing outboard" has anything to do with the inherent density of the algorhythm of a reverb..?





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jaykadis

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Dec 3 16 7:08 PM

One of the 224s UA modeled was ours. It's still running but no one feels the need to use it when mixing in Pro Tools. I think the majority of users are satisfied with the "proximity" of the plug-in emulations at this point, particularly since they are not comparing them to the originals. The Valhalla reverbs work nicely for me with a little tweaking.

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extrememixing

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Dec 3 16 8:05 PM

zmix wrote:
extrememixing wrote:
I didn't say "for the money". But I guess did suggest taking his wife out to dinner with the change!

Maybe it's because you're mixing outboard, that you feel they are too dense. In the box, I find that I can use the extra weight. I like the decay and the cascade that they have. They feel good to me.

There was a time when I loved the Lexicon 200! So cool. Never spent much time with a 224, but lots of time with the 480L and the PCM300. I never was a very loyal Lex guy.

Steve
Uh...yes, you did...!  :)


extrememixing wrote:
I think for $200 I'd try the Valhalla Room, Plates, and Vintage reverbs. Then take your wife out for dinner with the $50 you have left.


And I'd like to know what could you possibly be thinking when you suggest that somehow "mixing outboard" has anything to do with the inherent density of the algorhythm of a reverb..?





Oh no!!!  Chuck's calling me out!

I think Larry brought up the $200, so I was responding to him.  I don't judge the stuff I have by the price I paid.  They get used or they don't.

And I can't get inside your head to know exactly what you mean when you say things like the reverb is too dense for your taste.  Or your contention that reverbs are "developed and tweaked in isolation to meet some sort of ideal".  What does that even mean?  Should the code be written in a shopping mall so that anyone can stop by to give feedback?  Do you really think his way of working is conceptually that different from the guys at Lexicon in the 70's?

Not trying to start a war here, just saying that surely whether or not a reverb is useful is a thing where mixers can disagree.

And mixing inside the computer is a bit different than mixing on a console.  I think that MUST be the reason you use one.  Because things sound different.  Right?  

Steve
  

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seth

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Dec 3 16 8:49 PM

compasspnt wrote:
The 200 is a great box. I have three of them.

Sometimes I think I have so much gear that it distracts me from learning to use what I have well.

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zmix

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Dec 3 16 8:50 PM

extrememixing wrote:
zmix wrote:
extrememixing wrote:
I didn't say "for the money". But I guess did suggest taking his wife out to dinner with the change!

Maybe it's because you're mixing outboard, that you feel they are too dense. In the box, I find that I can use the extra weight. I like the decay and the cascade that they have. They feel good to me.

There was a time when I loved the Lexicon 200! So cool. Never spent much time with a 224, but lots of time with the 480L and the PCM300. I never was a very loyal Lex guy.

Steve
Uh...yes, you did...!  :)


extrememixing wrote:
I think for $200 I'd try the Valhalla Room, Plates, and Vintage reverbs. Then take your wife out for dinner with the $50 you have left.


And I'd like to know what could you possibly be thinking when you suggest that somehow "mixing outboard" has anything to do with the inherent density of the algorhythm of a reverb..?





Oh no!!!  Chuck's calling me out!

I think Larry brought up the $200, so I was responding to him.  I don't judge the stuff I have by the price I paid.  They get used or they don't.

And I can't get inside your head to know exactly what you mean when you say things like the reverb is too dense for your taste.  Or your contention that reverbs are "developed and tweaked in isolation to meet some sort of ideal".  What does that even mean?  Should the code be written in a shopping mall so that anyone can stop by to give feedback?  Do you really think his way of working is conceptually that different from the guys at Lexicon in the 70's?

Not trying to start a war here, just saying that surely whether or not a reverb is useful is a thing where mixers can disagree.

And mixing inside the computer is a bit different than mixing on a console.  I think that MUST be the reason you use one.  Because things sound different.  Right?  

Steve
  


Don't be a dick, Steve.. I'm not "calling you out"... Larry asked about the UAD 224, and he specifically asked me.  You didn't have an opinion about the 224 he was inquiring about,  but instead told him that he could save MONEY by using the plugins you suggested, so how did I get that wrong?

On to your second misapprehension:  You apparently do not have a lot of experience with designing or tweaking reverb algorithms (and I mean at the design  / tuning stage, NOT the end user stage). These are almost exclusively designed by people who do not make records for a living, or at least not very good ones.  A "plate" reverb might be tweaked for days while listening to only a single snare hit or impulse, they grow obsessed with perfectly exponential decays and maximum density (in their own words, actually)...it's like painting, except that you're actually formulating the paint and might not have the experience to see that the end user might have an entirely different subject and suddenly the colors aren't quite right.  The beauty of the EMT digital reverb, or the Ursa Major Space Station, or the Lexicon 224 (the Original one, the one we used for the UA model) is that they might not sound very impressive in isolation, but have remained popular because they WORK within the context of a mix. Every new reverb designer comes along and declares that they're going to "improve" these well known algos yet the classics remain.....

Thirdly I find your assertions about mixing on a console being "a bit different" than mixing in the computer when talking about completely different approaches to reverb design to be completely irrelevant, which is why I asked what you meant, rather than "calling you out" for such a ill founded generalization.  Do you think that converters, opamps, or even cables have a bigger effect on the sound of a reverb than the inherent algorhythm design? 

I can tell you that they do not, and I can prove it...


...

Last Edited By: zmix Dec 4 16 8:57 AM. Edited 1 time.

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bigbone

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Posts: 2,241 Member Since:27/01/2011

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Dec 3 16 9:38 PM

extrememixing wrote:
I think for $200 I'd try the Valhalla Room, Plates, and Vintage reverbs. Then take your wife out for dinner with the $50 you have left. Valhalla does have fully functional demos, I just can't believe how useful the Valhalla plugs are. It's not the Lexicon, I suppose, but then neither is the Lexicon plug in suite. I have that, but use the Valhalla stuff way more. No iLok. You can put them on more than one computer. But the most important thing is that they just always sound great. To me anyway...

Steve


agreed on everything except the " 50$ dinner with the wife" there is no way  i can get her to dinner for that...:)

JN

Last Edited By: bigbone Dec 3 16 9:45 PM. Edited 1 time.

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