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sausagemaker

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Posts: 118 Member Since: 28/08/2011

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Feb 23 17 10:21 AM

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Howdy,

I have a Yamaha C7 and I'm looking for insights from y'all on things like EarthWorks Piano Mike System vs DPA vs ?

Any tips and expierential knowledge or advise to share?

Thanks!
-Steve
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mario i

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,581 Member Since:28/01/2011

#1 [url]

Feb 23 17 10:33 AM

I've used those DPA clip on mics for live work / recording with a Yamaha C7 grand.
They do sound rather sweat, but you do get a lot of hammer / percussive sound.
As with any internal system, you're getting a sound basis it's position....

If you have no choice, because you are recording other instruments at the same time
it's great and brings out the piano in the mix.

M

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soapfoot

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Posts: 7,404 Member Since:04/02/2011

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Feb 23 17 11:16 AM

For recording, I'm not sure I would look first to one of those solutions, which can be great for live sound. I'm sure they could yield acceptable results, but...

a good old pair of U87s would probably be preferred (for me) the majority of the time.

I realize a pair of 87s is probably double the cost of that Earthworks system, but you might have them (or at least one) already, and even if not, they could certainly get a LOT of run on things besides piano.

But a lot of mics can work great. Placement matters a lot, depending on what you want to go for.

Good luck!

brad allen williams

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,637 Member Since:26/01/2011

#3 [url]

Feb 23 17 11:38 AM

It depends on the musical genre. For rock or pop I like a pair of KM84s over the hammers. If it's more featured and you won't be chopping out the bottom, as in a jazz record, I'd go with Brad - U87s, or possibly a pair of 251s if you have them.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

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#5 [url]

Feb 23 17 11:52 AM

KM84s over the hammers is a pretty classic sound when you want "that thing" and the piano is in more of a 'band' context.

brad allen williams

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jesse decarlo

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#7 [url]

Feb 23 17 6:31 PM

Lots of good advice already. I quite enjoy recording piano, because you can really dial in the sonic presentation to fit the material, maybe to a greater degree than with most other instruments. In addition to getting the timbre and amount of hammer sound you want, an important consideration for me is the stereo picture. There's always the temptation to make it wide and glorious because it sounds so good by itself, but often that isn't right for a band setting. Better to get that sorted while tracking than spend too much time messing around with the stereo field during mix, IMHO.

Last Edited By: jesse decarlo Feb 23 17 6:35 PM. Edited 1 time.

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scullyfan

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Feb 23 17 6:56 PM

I used to mic grand pianos with a coincident pair of C414EBs or MKH404s. If you spread the mics too far apart the piano begins to sound like it's 30-feet wide. I might be alone here.

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maarvold

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Posts: 3,145 Member Since:23/01/2011

#9 [url]

Feb 24 17 9:42 AM

scullyfan wrote:
I used to mic grand pianos with a coincident pair of C414EBs or MKH404s. If you spread the mics too far apart the piano begins to sound like it's 30-feet wide. I might be alone here.

 
I used 414EB's a couple of days ago: a popular choice.  Sennheiser MKH40's also can be pretty good ('son of 404/405').  My personal favorite are modded TLM170's.  They say,  ""Ha ha little piano--I laugh at your giant transients".  Where you put the mics makes a big difference in what you get (duh).  

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,404 Member Since:04/02/2011

#10 [url]

Feb 24 17 9:54 AM

There are a pair of early silver C414 (pre-EB) at our studio now, and I threw them up on piano the other day and really liked it. Kind of reminded me of some old Bill Evans records.

brad allen williams

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mario i

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#11 [url]

Feb 24 17 10:26 AM

Lefora ate my reply yesterday...

Ditto on the C-414's here.
C-451E's or a pair of Neumann's....
My AMI-TAB C-12's will get put up higher up.

It's really fun to have a pair closer in and pair high up it
allows me to change sound according to song.

M

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burp182

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Posts: 318 Member Since:03/03/2011

#12 [url]

Feb 24 17 2:22 PM

If recording the instrument by itself, allow me to mention the player perspective micing. A stereo (or stereo pair) mic near the player's head captures the instrument much as we hear it when we play it. I've also combined this with a pair of mics close to the hammers (with careful phase/delay consideration and compensation) when extra impact or bite is necessary.

All the above posts are excellent methodology. This might be a useful alternative in some cases.

I have the Earthworks system. Remarkably useful and agony-free live. An OK choice in the studio but you may find something you like better.

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barkleymckay

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Feb 25 17 8:55 AM

Near coincident type approach as it can collapse to mono well. I like the older AKG 451 in my grand piano (but possibly not in a modern Yamaha) just inside the curve about 18 inches above soundboard, right mic pointing toward the hammers about an octave above mid C - left oriented toward the bass strings part of the harp..
Both are getting the fullness of the tone from the soundboard.
The spaced can sound great but always nervous of how they sound summed to mono - also depends on the arrangement as in a busy mix it sound like the piano is 40 feet across. The Madeleine Peryoux album from about 10 years ago bugs me how the piano disappears.
Ken Scott is a colleague teaching at Leeds Beckett ( I know, right!) and we have regular chats and I tried his 3 mic approach which was quite fun. Not great for a jazz setup ( for me) but for rock stuff it was great

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zakco

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Posts: 1,101 Member Since:02/03/2011

#14 [url]

Feb 25 17 3:48 PM

As others have eluded to, it's all about context. Piano as main feature, piano vocals, piano in a dense arrangement...overdub/isolated or in the room with drums/guitars etc...these will all require very different approaches.

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nobturner

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Posts: 389 Member Since:01/02/2011

#15 [url]

Feb 26 17 10:34 PM

+1 on old C414EB's. Those original CK12 capsules love acoustic piano. You have a C12... get one more (or a C24) and you will have an outstanding piano setup. Plenty of small capsule omni's work on piano as well; I've used B&K's, Schoeps and Earthworks and gotten very good results. On a very new (and new-sounding, e.g. bright) C7 that I've recorded a few times I love a pair of B&K 4003's. Amazing detail, never an issue with dynamics (they run on 130V). On an older C7 with German hammers, the 414's fit better. Yet another older C7 that I've tracked many times (it was played by Herbie Hancock on a bunch of 70's records) hates the 414's and omni's and CS-1's, and loves a pair of stock U87's. So as always, whatever works...

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weedywet

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Posts: 5,960 Member Since:20/01/2011

#16 [url]

Feb 27 17 1:38 AM

for pop or rock tracks, I tend to go for three mics inside, facing down, each about 1/3 to midway down the respective strings (if that's clear)

KM86s are my favourite, but I've also used 87s or UM70s (or even 414s if forced).

 

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barkleymckay

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#17 [url]

Feb 27 17 5:38 AM

That's the technique that Ken Scott described to me WW. I remembered (as he described it) that you used this approach. His favoured mics are two 87s and with an 84 for the high. I'm sure if you watch the Pink Floyd DSOTM studio footage you can just make out the same approach on the piano by Alan Parsons. It sounded great, but I wasn't sure of it in a jazz trio context.

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knoppenman

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Posts: 43 Member Since:03/07/2012

#18 [url]

Feb 27 17 6:46 AM

If the lid has to be closed because the crosstalk I use U87s taped to the lid, in omni working "boundary".
Lid open: KM84s at hammer position and a Calrec Soundfield MK2. That is: this week...

Do you gentlemen have any experience with the Helpinstill pickups?
Regards, Frans

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natenajar

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Posts: 853 Member Since:14/04/2011

#19 [url]

Feb 27 17 10:08 AM

Lately I like the schoeps or dpa omnis or a coincident pair of cardioids, move nearer or further from the hammers to taste. I've used c24 when available with great effect, even the current production c12vr does ok on pop piano. I've used a pair of 87's a lot on jazz dates in the past and they're just fine too.

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rbreen

Silverado

Posts: 104 Member Since:31/03/2013

#20 [url]

Feb 27 17 12:03 PM

knoppenman wrote:
....
Do you gentlemen have any experience with the Helpinstill pickups?
Regards, Frans

While I generally loathe the sound of pickups in a piano, if you *have* to use them you might try the Yamahiko system - I heard it recently and it wasn't bad; certainly better than the Helpinstill.

Myself, I generally use a pair of DPA4011s, Schoeps CMC/MK4, or Sennheiser MKH800s in something close to ORTF.

best,
rich

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