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aleatoric

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Posts: 259 Member Since: 01/02/2012

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Feb 24 17 9:32 PM

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Blew a tweeter in my Tyler D1’s today.  No problem, luckily I had a ‘brand new, never used before, still in the box’ spare for just this type of situation.  Put the spare in and the same issue persists, lots of distortion.  Quickly concluded the tweeters were fine and it must be something else.  Eliminated the monitoring DAC, cables or amps as being the issue.  OK, so it’s some weird thing with the crossover.  Either a bad resistor, capacitor or connection somewhere.  Call Tyler of Tyler Acoustics, remove the bottom woofer, insulation and start messing around with bypassing the few components in there that are connected to the tweeter.  No luck.  Finally (several hours later) at a total loss, I decide to desolder the tweeter from the fully working speaker and solder it to the other and wouldn’t you know, all is fine!

So as it turns out my spare tweeter (which was still new in the box) had the same exact distortion issue as the tweeter I blew!  Frustrating day to say the least!  Tyler is going to be sending me out a replacement tweeter on Monday via overnight shipping, which I’ll obviously foot the bill for.  

Any of you guys ever have one of those days when it comes to equipment?

Last Edited By: aleatoric Feb 24 17 9:36 PM. Edited 1 time

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chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,749 Member Since:30/01/2011

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Feb 24 17 11:39 PM

It wasn't too clear to me when you said " Finally (several hours later) at a total loss, I decide to desolder the tweeter from the fully working speaker and solder it to the other and wouldn’t you know, all is fine!"


So you have that tweeter now wired in series with the other speaker in that cab? Eliminating the xover?

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aleatoric

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Posts: 259 Member Since:01/02/2012

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Feb 25 17 7:22 AM

chance wrote:
It wasn't too clear to me when you said " Finally (several hours later) at a total loss, I decide to desolder the tweeter from the fully working speaker and solder it to the other and wouldn’t you know, all is fine!"


So you have that tweeter now wired in series with the other speaker in that cab? Eliminating the xover?

No.  Basically I had a distorted tweeter in one of my D1's.  Replaced it with my spare tweeter and distortion still remained.  So I then concluded the tweeters were fine and it must be something else which led to me trying to troubleshoot the crossover components.  Finally I swapped the tweeter from the working speaker over to the "broken" speaker and all was fine.  My spare tweeter just so happened to be distorted as well.  Just a big old headache and very bizarre coincidence and now I’m just waiting on a replacement tweeter to arrive and I’ll be back up and running. 

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aleatoric

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Posts: 259 Member Since:01/02/2012

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Feb 25 17 2:03 PM

seth wrote:
Maybe they deteriorate over time even if not in use.

I don't think that's the case.  Lots of D1 users out there, word probably would have spread by now if people’s tweeters were going after a certain number of years.  I believe I just got really unlucky that my spare was bad. 

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chance

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,749 Member Since:30/01/2011

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Feb 26 17 2:36 PM

bob olhsson wrote:
That happened to me with a bunch of brand new Belkin firewire cables.

Don't feel bad. I've replaced a bad 6072 tube with another 6072 tube that was bad. Turns out I held on to it as a reference for what to replace it with

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scullyfan

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,615 Member Since:27/07/2011

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Feb 26 17 3:38 PM

bob olhsson wrote:
That happened to me with a bunch of brand new Belkin firewire cables.


​I've personally had such bad luck with everything branded Belkin (switches, routers, access points) that I won't buy anything that says Belkin on it. 

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maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,205 Member Since:23/01/2011

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Feb 28 17 9:55 AM

Actually your NOS tweeter wasn't really the same as the new one because the one that went bad was good until it went bad.  Did you retry the NOS one AFTER the one from the other speaker worked fine?  Or did you put the NOS tweeter in the other (non-problematic) speaker?  Maybe, on the bad speaker side, you have cold solder in the crossover or other end of the speaker leads that was restored enough by the exercise from a couple of driver changes.  Not saying you're wrong in your diagnosis.  I just like to feel like I found a plausible reason when something's not working.  

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aleatoric

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Posts: 259 Member Since:01/02/2012

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Feb 28 17 6:15 PM

Well unfortunately it looks like I spoke too soon.  This new tweeter is distorting as well, although in an entirely different manner than the other two tweeters. I can make the distortion go away for a bit by gently massaging the outside of the tweeter but then it comes back. It almost seems that these tweeters deteriorate with age or something.

Here is a link to a video I recorded of the issue. The tone at the end is the correct non-distorted tone.

https://we.tl/JWupjZvw6n

Any ideas?

EDIT:  Been running pink noise for the last 40 minutes.  Now when I go back and run some tones/listen to music the tweeter is no longer distorting.  Could just be it sat around unused for a long time and needs to be "worked".  At least that is what I'm hoping.  Going to run pink noise overnight and see where that leaves me. 

Last Edited By: aleatoric Feb 28 17 7:16 PM. Edited 2 times.

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jfee

Tin Man

Posts: 32 Member Since:15/06/2011

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Feb 28 17 8:57 PM

That is weird.

Have you tried any of the 'distorted' tweeters in the other working speaker?

It almost feels like the tweeter's electrical connection, or some connection in its crossover is partially shorting to the box, and then the amp is struggling to drive it, thus distorting like crazy, and you moving it a bit with the qtip is eliminating the short. I have no idea how that would happen though....you might look if there's any insulation type material around the mounting or that any of the wires aren't hanging near a point they could short to.

Good luck with the sleuthing! 

 

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tbethel

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Posts: 307 Member Since:21/02/2011

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Mar 1 17 6:08 AM

Depending on how speakers are stored they could "sag" a bit but I think you have other problems like a connection to the crossover board that is going bad or a capacitor or choke that is acting up. Best of luck in finding the problem. Sometimes just getting the problem to be consistent is the hardest thing to do. Have you installed in the newest tweeter in the other "good" speaker to see if it is still the same problem?
Trouble shooting is a $itch...

-TOM-
Thomas W. Bethel
Managing Director, Acoustik Musik, Ltd.
www.acoustikmusik.com/
Celebrating 22 years in business in 2017

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matteskyk

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Posts: 66 Member Since:19/05/2011

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Mar 1 17 10:09 AM

I know you said that you eliminated the amps as a cause of the problem.  Did you do a full amp swap out, or if you have monoblocks, did you the same monoblock on the left and then switch to the right, repeating the process for the second monoblock?  This sounds a bit similar to an issue I had a couple of years ago.  Essentially after going through the chain to the speaker I could not find anything wrong, this led to a lot of hair pulling, and replacement parts.  In the end, when the problem finally settled into a consistent issue that I could more clearly trace, it turned out that the amp I was using at the time was temporarily producing distortion out of one of the stereo channels.  This is where some of my original misdiagnosis had come from, as the amp was slowly failing, producing random distortion for random time periods and then operating correctly.  Now this is not to say this is your issue, but you may want to run through the chain to the speaker again, possibly eliminating pieces of gear with backup equipment, or borrowed equipment.  Things may be more clear when the newest tweeter comes in.  I hope your issue is resolved soon, many of us know how you are feeling and it can drive one up the wall.  

-Kevin Mattesky www.phantomcentermedia.com

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aleatoric

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Posts: 259 Member Since:01/02/2012

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Mar 1 17 11:13 AM

Good news.  I ran pink noise all night long and the distortion is now gone.  Actually after about an hour of pink noise it was gone but I ran it all night anyway for safe measure.  My guess is this tweeter had been sitting around unused for 4-5 years or more in KY and just needed to be worked in.

In regards to the check your amps, crossovers, etc. replies.  To clarify:

- Amp and cable swaps were one of the first things I did with the initial blown tweeter

- I then replaced the initial blown tweeter with my on-hand spare tweeter which had the same issue

- After much head scrachting I then swapped the tweeter from the working speaker into the speaker with the initial blown tweeter and all was well

- This latest and third tweeter which was just sent to me by Tyler himself went into the speaker that was 100% working (the one I took the good tweeter out of)

That’s probably all a bit confusing but if you followed you’ll see the issue was completely tweeter related.  All is working now.  I do however question the longevity of these tweeters, which sucks because Ty doesn’t really have spares anymore due to switching to the Decade X series which uses a different tweeter.  I may be able to get a few more backups but they would not be coming from Ty.  Really hoping that works out and would put my mind at ease.  Otherwise I may have to start taking a strong look at switching speakers (which I'd rather not do). 

Anyway, pretty funny I made a post about “troubleshooting craziness” and it got even weirder with yet a third tweeter behaving bizarrely.  Just my luck!  I’m just glad it’s no longer distorting and I can get back to work today.

Last Edited By: aleatoric Mar 1 17 11:38 AM. Edited 1 time.

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matteskyk

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Posts: 66 Member Since:19/05/2011

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Mar 1 17 1:55 PM

aleatoric wrote:
Good news.  I ran pink noise all night long and the distortion is now gone.  Actually after about an hour of pink noise it was gone but I ran it all night anyway for safe measure.  My guess is this tweeter had been sitting around unused for 4-5 years or more in KY and just needed to be worked in.

In regards to the check your amps, crossovers, etc. replies.  To clarify:

- Amp and cable swaps were one of the first things I did with the initial blown tweeter

- I then replaced the initial blown tweeter with my on-hand spare tweeter which had the same issue

- After much head scrachting I then swapped the tweeter from the working speaker into the speaker with the initial blown tweeter and all was well

- This latest and third tweeter which was just sent to me by Tyler himself went into the speaker that was 100% working (the one I took the good tweeter out of)

That’s probably all a bit confusing but if you followed you’ll see the issue was completely tweeter related.  All is working now.  I do however question the longevity of these tweeters, which sucks because Ty doesn’t really have spares anymore due to switching to the Decade X series which uses a different tweeter.  I may be able to get a few more backups but they would not be coming from Ty.  Really hoping that works out and would put my mind at ease.  Otherwise I may have to start taking a strong look at switching speakers (which I'd rather not do). 

Anyway, pretty funny I made a post about “troubleshooting craziness” and it got even weirder with yet a third tweeter behaving bizarrely.  Just my luck!  I’m just glad it’s no longer distorting and I can get back to work today.
 

Your timeline rundown does make things very clear, thanks for breaking it down for us.  I am glad to hear that your issue is resolved Mark.

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