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bigbone

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Feb 27 17 5:32 PM

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I always love to see simple drums set-up and recording in 2017

here's a picture from David Garfield next CD with Steve Jordan on drums recording at
Capitol Record by Al Schmitt.

P.S. Garfield isn't playing the drums..........

JN

imageimage
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chance

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Feb 27 17 6:16 PM

For basic material, I'm happy with 2 overheads and a bass drum mic. Sometimes where there is a lot of featured toms being recorded, I will use more, but I like the simple approach

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spiritwalker

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Feb 27 17 6:23 PM

Are we talking about a simple drum kit, or simple micing technique?

For mics I see
1 possibly two mics on the snare
1 mic on each of the toms
1 hi hat mic
1 kick mic
2 overheads

That's eight mics, and I'm not sure there isn't a batter head mic on the kick.

OK it's cold here

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seth

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Feb 27 17 6:35 PM

One lesson I've learned about simple mic setups - you have to actually listen to the drums and make sure they sound good. If the drums themselves don't sound good no mic setup will make them sound better, but if you have multi mics at least you can trigger samples. Surprisingly to me, some people don't listen to the drums alone and make sure they sound good. It sounds obvious, but it's not. You get caught up in the recording excitement and the sound of the band, and you don't realize the toms sound shitty until you mix. I just mixed an album like that. Fortunately it doesn't detract much from the overall record, but the toms sound crappy and there wasn't a thing I could do about it.

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weedywet

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Feb 27 17 6:52 PM

Agreed that that isn't THAT "simple" a set up. 
To Seth's point I would say that if while recording the whole band it's working for everyone with the 'bad' Tom sound then it's fine later as well. 

I'd almost always rather the sound as it happened, "perfect" or not, versus sound replaced drums to some ideal. 

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bigbone

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Feb 27 17 7:14 PM

In 2017, in my experience. a kit like that and a couple of mic IS simple.....Some might said
that years ago,some saw fewer mic, agree, but we are in 2017 and it's nice to see a set-up 
like that...................

JN

Last Edited By: bigbone Feb 27 17 7:21 PM. Edited 1 time.

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bigbone

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Feb 27 17 7:20 PM

seth wrote:
One lesson I've learned about simple mic setups - you have to actually listen to the drums and make sure they sound good. If the drums themselves don't sound good no mic setup will make them sound better, but if you have multi mics at least you can trigger samples. Surprisingly to me, some people don't listen to the drums alone and make sure they sound good. It sounds obvious, but it's not. You get caught up in the recording excitement and the sound of the band, and you don't realize the toms sound shitty until you mix. I just mixed an album like that. Fortunately it doesn't detract much from the overall record, but the toms sound crappy and there wasn't a thing I could do about it.


Seth

I' m sure steve Jordan drums sound perfect for the song. he's got the tracks record to prove it.
You don't have a 30's years career like him by second guessing his drums tone..... :)  :)

JN

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harland

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#11 [url]

Feb 27 17 9:50 PM

I don't really understand the positioning of the overheads, particularly if they are cardioid. If they are omni that would be more understandable in light of the way they appear to be pointing.

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bigbone

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Feb 27 17 10:46 PM

weedywet wrote:
I'm fairly sure AL SCHMIDT's drums sound right for the record. 

I'm sure about Al Schmitt also.


JN

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seth

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Feb 27 17 11:48 PM

weedywet wrote:

To Seth's point I would say that if while recording the whole band it's working for everyone with the 'bad' Tom sound then it's fine later as well. 

 

I agree. Samples would have been a last resort in any case, in this case they weren't an option. The only thing that kept the toms from sounding good was the band not listening to see if the toms sounded good before they got into laying down tracks. A little more care would have been good. Ultimately the record is fine and the toms don't really detract from the overall sound.

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jesse decarlo

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#14 [url]

Feb 28 17 12:17 AM

I manually dropped in tom samples while mixing a song last year that didn't have close tom mics. The tracking engineer had attempted a Glyn Johns approach but had put the top mics really far away. Everything sounded nice but the production really called for the toms to sound a little closer. It worked out.

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chance

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#15 [url]

Feb 28 17 12:36 PM

Many years ago I recorded a jam for Seymore Duncan at the NAMM show where Peter Kriss was on drums. Peter was an animal, and because his kit was not set up like he was used to, he destroyed the snare and 2 of the tom mics. I was recording to my HDR from the direct outs of the console with no monitoring. When I got it back in the studio, the only usable drum tracks were the overheads and the bass drum. I ended up cloning the O/H tracks 3 times and editing out everything except the snare, on one and everything except the toms on the other 2 cloned O/H tracks and replaced those 3 tracks with samples. It was a lot of work but it worked OK. The O/H mics didn't really capture the toms and snare very well. If they did, it would have saved a lot of work

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weedywet

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#17 [url]

Feb 28 17 10:47 PM

I am in general not in favour of "cymbal mics".

it's why I rarely use actual 'overheads' at all. They almost invariably don't add to the overall sound.

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gtoledo3

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#18 [url]

Feb 28 17 11:09 PM

Yeah, that's what I think too... an effort to get more cymbal in the overheads, less body from the toms, less kick. It will tend to catch more of the attack from the drums than the body of them.

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podgorny

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Feb 28 17 11:37 PM

harland wrote:
Anyone - what's your take on the placement of the OH mics in the pics?



Perhaps the goal in this case was to have a relatively narrow spread in the overheads, or perhaps Al simply preferred the sound of the mics' off-axis response. Or maybe he does it that way because he saw George Massenburg do it once. (image).  I try not to judge recordings based on pictures.

Kyle Mann :: www.kylemann.com

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maarvold

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#20 [url]

Mar 1 17 12:37 AM

podgorny wrote:

harland wrote:
Anyone - what's your take on the placement of the OH mics in the pics?



Perhaps the goal in this case was to have a relatively narrow spread in the overheads, or perhaps Al simply preferred the sound of the mics' off-axis response. Or maybe he does it that way because he saw George Massenburg do it once. (image).  I try not to judge recordings based on pictures.

 
Those look to me like 452's on OH; if the capsules are cardioid, in spite of the visual aspect of the mic positions, the drum set is all reasonably well in the pattern (see data sheet at link), but the center of the set will be down maybe 2.5-7 dB in each mic (more in the top octave) but--since things in the middle of the set arrive in both mics--they will add and not be particularly down in level in the stereo 'picture'; also the cymbals are closer than the drums so they will be louder as ww stated.  

http://www.coutant.org/akgc460b/c460b.pdf

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