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bigbone

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Posts: 2,267 Member Since:27/01/2011

#21 [url]

Mar 1 17 8:46 AM

harland wrote:
Anyone - what's your take on the placement of the OH mics in the pics?


Curious also, every pictures that i saw from Al Schmitt drums set-up, the OH ( AKG 451EB) are in
that position , Maybe Al can stop by and chime in. 
Steve G, who work a lot with Al and post here can ask him.......

JN

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extrememixing

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Posts: 2,369 Member Since:02/02/2011

#22 [url]

Mar 1 17 11:11 AM

Al probably likes them that way. Why not just try it the next time you record drums and see if you like it, too? I think it adds a bit more room into the overheads while de-emphasizing the snare in the center. By and large, anything you can do with mic placement is better than what you can do with EQ, if you're looking for a natural sounding kit, which Al usually is.

Steve

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weedywet

Ruby Baby

Posts: 6,007 Member Since:20/01/2011

#23 [url]

Mar 1 17 11:58 AM

Yes it LOOKS like It's to make a bigger hole in the center. 

But then even more so it makes them more about cymbals than snare and kit pickup. 
Not for me. 
Although I'm sure it works for him. 
 

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chance

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Posts: 2,750 Member Since:30/01/2011

#24 [url]

Mar 1 17 12:43 PM

weedywet wrote:
I am in general not in favour of "cymbal mics".

it's why I rarely use actual 'overheads' at all. They almost invariably don't add to the overall sound.

I find this interesting. I like your drum mixes. Care to elaborate?

Chance Pataki The Musicians Workshop www.the-musicians-workshop.com musicians.workshop@gte.net

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scullyfan

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#25 [url]

Mar 1 17 2:00 PM

weedywet wrote:
I am in general not in favour of "cymbal mics".

it's why I rarely use actual 'overheads' at all. They almost invariably don't add to the overall sound.


My sentiments, as well. I couldn't help but notice that Malcolm Chisholm (Chess Records/Ter Mar Studios) never used overheads and his drum mixes sounded great, they certainly were never wanting for cymbals. I'm pretty sure from our discussions at the time that he felt the cymbals were picked up adequately by the other mics he set up. 

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morespaceecho

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#26 [url]

Mar 1 17 2:28 PM

extrememixing wrote:
while de-emphasizing the snare in the center. 

 


not arguing with you (or Al!), but why would anyone want to do this? "too much snare" seems like a problem akin to having too much money or being too good looking.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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soapfoot

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Posts: 7,512 Member Since:04/02/2011

#27 [url]

Mar 1 17 2:55 PM

morespaceecho wrote:

extrememixing wrote:
while de-emphasizing the snare in the center. 




 


not arguing with you (or Al!), but why would anyone want to do this? "too much snare" seems like a problem akin to having too much money or being too good looking.

Not all music has the main groove on the kick and snare.

Plenty of music exists where the main pulse is on the cymbal, and the kick+snare are used melodically or for accents.

For example, if I were recording the great Arthur Taylor, I'd be wanting to capture that big, wide swinging cymbal beat above all else.

brad allen williams

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morespaceecho

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#28 [url]

Mar 1 17 3:21 PM

sure, that's fair enough. but don't you think in most cases like that, the drummer would be giving you a nice balance already?

you have to hit a cymbal awfully softly to have it be quieter than the drums in the overheads.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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weedywet

Ruby Baby

Posts: 6,007 Member Since:20/01/2011

#29 [url]

Mar 1 17 3:57 PM

Buddy Rich in no uncertain terms said "put a mic over the center and one on the bass drum and leave the rest to me"

although that's a much sanitized and nicer version of the actual exchange. 

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digitmus

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Posts: 396 Member Since:01/02/2011

#30 [url]

Mar 1 17 5:11 PM

I have a much easier time getting a good sound/balance since I quit using OHs and put a C426b about 4' in front of the kit, head high, aimed slightly down along a line bisecting the kick & snare. Add an iFet7 on kick, and e22s on snare and that's often all I need.

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morespaceecho

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#32 [url]

Mar 1 17 5:32 PM

depending on the drummer that might be the way to go.

digitmus wrote:
 a C426b about 4' in front of the kit, head high, aimed slightly down along a line bisecting the kick & snare. 

 
similarly but opposite, i like a mic near my right shoulder, head high, aimed at the snare. just that and a kick mic is enough sometimes.

i like doing that, and i like using a dozen mics too. i don't think one way is any better than the other. 

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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harland

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#35 [url]

Mar 1 17 10:42 PM

Thanks for your responses to my question. In looking at it again, with all the close mics there are, maybe he was going for a wider image on the top end and having the OH's acting as room mics as well.

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maarvold

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Posts: 3,209 Member Since:23/01/2011

#36 [url]

Mar 2 17 10:33 AM

harland wrote:
Thanks for your responses to my question. In looking at it again, with all the close mics there are, maybe he was going for a wider image on the top end and having the OH's acting as room mics as well.

 
FWIW, and I'm only 'one guy', but the only way I have liked the sound of drums in that booth at Capitol is with all the slats open.  Looking for more room aspect would not be what I was going for.  Of course, I'm quite sure Al knows exactly what he's doing, but it may, or may not, be be to get more room.  The room aspect would also be lees of a thing if the drummer wasn't playing too loud in there.  

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rodaffleck

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Posts: 179 Member Since:26/01/2011

#37 [url]

Mar 2 17 10:58 AM

Here's my guess.

It's a bit hard to tell from the photos, but the OHs don't look like they're pointing directly at the cymbals, but further out to the side. So the cymbals are off axis as well, though not to the extent that the snare is. But since cardioid typically mics don't have a uniform pattern at all frequencies, this may actually have the effect of better balancing the kit than if the OHs were pointing towards the centre. The high frequencies response would be narrower, almost hypercardioid-like, compared to the wider patter of the mids. So the cymbals may actually end up being attenuated much more than you might expect them to be in this configuration, whereas the snare, being a lower frequency output and being picked up equally in both mics, might not be louder than you might expect.

Admittedly I'm making a few assumptions here but it seems like a possible rationale to me.

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dr funk

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Posts: 1,643 Member Since:24/12/2011

#39 [url]

Mar 2 17 12:16 PM

Could it be an extra-wide near-coincident setup? NOS spacing is 30cm and 90 degrees, but that looks quite a bit wider. I happen to like near-coincident overheads - usually ORTF or DIN.

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