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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,323 Member Since:29/01/2011

#2 [url]

Feb 28 17 10:33 AM

is it april fools? that nae slappin business doesn't sound remotely like the fly. it does sound like a guy sitting alone in his bedroom noodling along to a drum machine and thinking he's the greatest. i myself was doing exactly that in 1989 and have hours of similarly aimless wailing on tape.

kinda tough to imagine the edge, the least shred-y of guitarists, listening to this and doing anything other than turning it off. 



 

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Cirrus

Tin Man

Posts: 46 Member Since:08/12/2014

#4 [url]

Mar 1 17 6:42 AM

The groove - that bassline and drum pattern - definitely is very similar.

But...

a) It's a basic rock groove, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were prior songs to the Nae Slappin' one that also use said groove.

b) The similarity ends there. The Fly has a different structure, it has lyrics and a vocal melody which the other song lacks, it has a key change into the choruses, I didn't hear any melodic crossover. Maybe if the Nae Slappin track had a guitar melody that was lifted, there'd be a case to answer, but I don't hear one.

c) The choice to wait 26 years is a strange one, and I don't buy the explanation given. If a major band ripped one of my tracks, the first thing I'd do is sue them - think of the exposure!

d) "The Fly" was an evolution of an earlier song called "Lady with the Spinning Head" which also spawned "Ultraviolet" from the same album. "Lady with..." sounds even less like Nae Slappin than the Fly does, and itself can be traced back through a few jam sessions stolen from Hansa Studios and released as a bootleg.

That said, it seems courts seem to have moved away from the idea that a song is the lyrics and melody and began to believe that relatively common grooves/ chord sequences can be protected, so who knows.

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,637 Member Since:26/01/2011

#5 [url]

Mar 1 17 8:26 AM

Lyrics and melody are what is copyrightable. The reason the lawyer used the phrase "substantially similar" in the article is that the standard courts use to decide plagiarism is called "substantial similarity," along with access.

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,323 Member Since:29/01/2011

#6 [url]

Mar 1 17 9:53 AM

Cirrus wrote:
d) "The Fly" was an evolution of an earlier song called "Lady with the Spinning Head" which also spawned "Ultraviolet" from the same album. "Lady with..." sounds even less like Nae Slappin than the Fly does, and itself can be traced back through a few jam sessions stolen from Hansa Studios and released as a bootleg.

 

i have that bootleg. parts of it are actually pretty interesting! '

achtung baby' is a big reason why i started making records, i could go on and on but i'll spare y'all.

"lady with the spinning head" sounds like a dali title.
 

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Cirrus

Tin Man

Posts: 46 Member Since:08/12/2014

#7 [url]

Mar 1 17 11:11 AM

morespaceecho wrote:
i have that bootleg. parts of it are actually pretty interesting! '

achtung baby' is a big reason why i started making records, i could go on and on but i'll spare y'all.

 

Me too, got a CD copy at a shop in Dublin!

And don't spare me. image

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zakco

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,101 Member Since:02/03/2011

#8 [url]

Mar 1 17 11:41 AM

Cirrus wrote:
That said, it seems courts seem to have moved away from the idea that a song is the lyrics and melody and began to believe that relatively common grooves/ chord sequences can be protected, so who knows.

If that's the case, Chuck Berry, (or whoever owns his catalog) along with many other trendsetters, has a bright financial future!

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,323 Member Since:29/01/2011

#12 [url]

Mar 1 17 12:40 PM

i was gonna say, if the fly's ripping off anyone it's bo diddley.

Cirrus wrote:
And don't spare me. image


ok you asked for it.

i was a full-on teenage metalhead in the 80s. metalheads only like metal, everything else sucks. however, i heard 'new years day' on the radio and like anyone with ears, i said 'now that is some bad ass guitar right there'. so the edge was the one non-metal guitar player i liked. 

a friend got 'unforgettable fire'. puts it on, says 'you gotta listen to this'. track 3, "wire", he's pointing at the speakers, "listen to that guitar!" i said 'yeah, that is some bad ass guitar right there!'

joshua tree came out my senior year of high school. suddenly all the aspiring yuppie kids were all U2 U2 U2! so like any good contrarian metaller, i said 'fuck these guys' and got deeper into scooped mid chromaticism. (i have, of course, since realized the error of my ways, and joshua tree is one of my favorite records. going to see them play it in its entirety this summer.)

so i totally tuned out on U2 for years. they put out achtung baby, i still didn't care. then i heard 'till the end of the world' on the radio. thought 'hm, that's pretty cool.'

the next day i heard 'the fly', thought 'shit, that's really cool!'

the next day i heard 'one', thought 'ok that's obviously a classic goddamn song, i gotta have this record'.

i just got super into it. loved the production. would lay in bed every night listening to it on headphones. it was on all the time in the car. that was the first record where i really started to think about how they made it. thinking about the mixing board. like, a shaker would come in and i'd think 'that's been going the whole time it's just been muted'. or the guitar in 'the fly', someone's obviously riding the fader. or those big crazy midrange eq sweeps on 'till the end of the world'...i didn't know how exactly they were doing it, but it was obvious that it was someone twisting a knob on something, and i was like i wanna be that someone. 

i just thought it was a really interesting record, and it was actually way more alternative than pretty much everything else that was getting labelled 'alternative' at the time. 

and then, when they're busy being one of the hugest bands in the world and should be comfortably resting on their laurels and counting their money, they put out 'zooropa', and i thought that was great too. 

of course, eno, flood and daniel lanois have a lot to do with all this, but it was U2 who got me into all those guys. 

one thing i really like about them is it seems like they are not precious at all about their initial ideas. they'll edit and revise and change stuff mercilessly. at the same time, when they know some initial idea is really good, they'll go to great lengths to keep that all the way through to the finished tune. the guitar solo on 'the fly' is one example. some of the guitar on 'bullet the blue sky' is another. 

you can hear some of that on the bootleg. another thing that's interesting about the bootleg is edge is playing really simple caveman power chord guitar on a bunch of it. and there's pretty much NONE of that on the finished record. that was really influential when i was younger, just hearing edge's layered approach. i hadn't really thought about guitar like that before then. but it's still how i think about it now.

ok that's enough for now!

 

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zakco

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,101 Member Since:02/03/2011

#13 [url]

Mar 1 17 2:03 PM

gtoledo3 wrote:
Speaking of Chuck...

Yep, no doubt about those!

And I'd thought that Chuck had lifted it from Marty McFly.


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zakco

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,101 Member Since:02/03/2011

#15 [url]

Mar 1 17 2:26 PM

morespaceecho wrote:
it's a blues in B. watch me for the changes.
It's WAY more than that. Listen to the opening hook of the Louis Jordan track! Compared to that, the U2/Slappin bit isn't even worth discussing.

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gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,190 Member Since:23/10/2013

#17 [url]

Mar 1 17 3:01 PM

Mysterious Ways reminded me of this, from around a year before:



Not infringement as I see it, just some similar DNA... and Mysterious Ways is a much better song, different structure, melody, etc.

The relationship in the original post seems a little tenuous, but at the same time, let's remember that U2 was admittedly trying to reinvent themselves, add in new influences of the day via the "manchester sound" stuff like Jesus Jones, etc.

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,323 Member Since:29/01/2011

#18 [url]

Mar 1 17 3:16 PM

that's closer than nae slapping is to the fly. 

re: mysterious ways, i read a story somewhere that the edge overdubbed the main wah wah guitar bit onto the already-finished mix, either at the mastering session(!) or at the last second of mixing before they sent everything off. this seems totally crazy, it's really tough to imagine that song being "finished" without that guitar part. 

but true or not, that does seem kind of indicative of their working process, and i find it pretty charming/amusing. you have a band with all the money/resources in the world and yet their working method seems almost chaotic, it's always a last minute panic rush to get everything finished.

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hallams

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,621 Member Since:26/01/2011

#20 [url]

Mar 1 17 6:15 PM

Funny this should come up as I just watched this interview with Colin Hay on ABC TV last night;
http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/julia-zemiros-home-delivery/LE1661H005S00#playing

It was only mentioned in passing but It renewed my anger at the Larikin law suit against his song.
It is an example of robbery by lawsuit in my opinion and some one or institution should put an end to this and other examples of court sanctioned madness and robbery...........

always look on the bright side of life.......
oh please stay by me dianna........
dream dream dream.......
you send me.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_containing_the_50s_progression

http://playlists.net/amfgcfourchords130songs

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/for_beginners/learn_thousands_of_songs_by_knowing_these_top_4_chord_progressions.html

Hallamsound Productions.

Last Edited By: hallams Mar 1 17 6:17 PM. Edited 1 time.

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