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queef bag

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,275 Member Since:24/02/2011

#21 [url]

Mar 2 17 2:38 PM

guitar and style dependent, of course, but....
the 12th fret thing is generally a starting point for one mic, and also just over the player's right shoulder looking down at guitar (as mentioned earlier)
can be great - guitarists can like this, as it is the perspective they hear their guitar from, via the right ear.
much more mids than the 12th fret thing, but mids are beautiful. and missing at the 12th fret.
a mic on the lower bout will get even more mids and not a lot of anything else.

i usually pick 2 mics and blend with small diaphragm mics a foot or two away. most of the time with LDC i use just one further back (2-3ft)
the equation for the exact distance is personal taste minus situational demands divided by room acoustics.
mics? most really good ones will work... +1 on the km54/56 & km84, mkh40, under rated - gefell m300 especially if there are also vocals.
LDC is fine too, U67 a fave, or 87, 414 if it is all silver or a TLII.

acoustic guitar is where inexpensive mics can sound like plastic. a good litmus test for mics.

jf

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,302 Member Since:29/01/2011

#22 [url]

Mar 2 17 3:04 PM

soapfoot wrote:

seth wrote:
KM-84 or KM56.

Would someone explain crest factor to me? I've never been able to grasp it.

I hope I don't remove any doubt that I'm a fool here, but isn't it simply the difference between the average (RMS) level of a signal and the peak level of that same signal?

 

that's how i'd explain it. of course, i hate 57s but do like 32 bits, so i may well be the fool here.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,506 Member Since:27/01/2011

#23 [url]

Mar 2 17 3:05 PM

soapfoot wrote:
but isn't it simply the difference between the average (RMS) level of a signal and the peak level of that same signal?

 

Yes. Perhaps I should have used a less specific term. I meant that if the VU meter is generating it's own weather patterns by flapping around, you've got a problem.  Like close micing a musical theater belter.
 

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hallams

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,610 Member Since:26/01/2011

#25 [url]

Mar 2 17 4:29 PM

I prefer a nice sounding live space but rooms with problems in the low mids and lows are to be avoided. I did a lot of recording in lounge of my mud brick house and would often use mt AKG C 568 EB shotgun
mic at a distance of about six feet pointing towards the sound hole area. This always resulted in a bigger sound than close micing. The guitars of course should be great sounding instruments. I use a Guild Jumbo, Tama TG 180 etc and my old Maton Premier F hole. Another mic i use regularly was the STC 4033 which had a ribbon and dynamic capsule with switchable polar pattern. I love this mic as you have options for adjusting room ambience with the polar patterns.

Hallamsound Productions.

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John Eppstein

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,223 Member Since:31/05/2015

#27 [url]

Mar 2 17 5:08 PM

soapfoot wrote:

morespaceecho wrote:

acoustic in a dense rock song is one of the very few times where a 57 is a useful microphone.

I think a 57 is a plenty useful microphone. 

 

I dunno. A 56 doesn't tend to roll when used as a paperweight...

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gregdixon

Gold Finger

Posts: 477 Member Since:30/01/2011

#28 [url]

Mar 2 17 5:08 PM

For many years I had success using a U87 where the neck joins the body, angle towards the body and a KM84 near the bridge angled slightly towards the sound hole. I can't remember why I stopped using that setup, but players used to love the way it sounded. I was doing a lot of singer guitarist recordings, so might have stopped when the guitar was always part of the band.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,318 Member Since:04/02/2011

#29 [url]

Mar 2 17 5:19 PM

barkleymckay wrote:
The Sennheiser MD441 can be great on the acoustic.
Positioning usual suspect...

It can!

I used one recently pointed at the neck joint, with a Telefunken SM23 (stereo KM56, basically) in blumlein for ambience, barely blended in (bulk of the sound was the 441. It was great, and a great pairing.

brad allen williams

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spiritwalker

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,663 Member Since:14/02/2011

#30 [url]

Mar 2 17 5:52 PM

I find that in acoustic singer songwriter situations the guitar and voice record OK in my space, even with it's limitations.

The one I always have trouble with is when the acoustic is part of the band. I just can't seem to get it to sit properly.

Any suggestions?

OK it's cold here

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hallams

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,610 Member Since:26/01/2011

#31 [url]

Mar 2 17 6:06 PM

spiritwalker wrote:
I find that in acoustic singer songwriter situations the guitar and voice record OK in my space, even with it's limitations.

The one I always have trouble with is when the acoustic is part of the band. I just can't seem to get it to sit properly.

Any suggestions?

Well, a few quick thoughts, arrangement, balance,  compression, good presence ie mid highs while avoiding a trashy top end. I usualy avoid what i think is excessive top end that many engineers ive come accross seem to think is esential

Hallamsound Productions.

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hallams

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,610 Member Since:26/01/2011

#32 [url]

Mar 2 17 6:18 PM

For the 57 haters ;) ........here is a recording of my old maton using a single 57 and some lexicon reverb added to give a bit of stereo width. I think i have posted the song here before and hope you don't mind me doing so again. Some of the reverberation comes from the guitars harmonic overtones etc as the instrument has a lively sound. It may confirm a dislike of the humble 57 or might offer some hope. Of course it's always possible or even probable it could have sounded better if recorded with high end mic but it was the only mic in reach when the inspiration arrived. It was an in the moment recording The relevant tune is Casey's song:
https://itunes.apple.com/au/album/home/id916339577

Hallamsound Productions.

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gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,115 Member Since:23/10/2013

#34 [url]

Mar 2 17 7:24 PM

spiritwalker wrote:
I find that in acoustic singer songwriter situations the guitar and voice record OK in my space, even with it's limitations.

The one I always have trouble with is when the acoustic is part of the band. I just can't seem to get it to sit properly.

Any suggestions?

Sometimes it can work out well to record into a corner of a room, because you get a sort of tight reflection that makes the sound pop a bit. Or a bathroom. Or to use a similar type bright short reverb.

I would also maybe listen for ways to have the acoustic work in tandem with the hi-hat and perhaps snare, arrangement wise. So that if the hi hat is playing a figure, the strums of the guitar are almost an extension that adds tonality. 

Another thing that can work out well is to stretch the chord out over a couple parts, having one guitar part play a higher inversion, the other guitar a lower inversion. 

12 string strumming can work out pretty well on recordings because of that extra chime.

--

I use a lot of different mics and mic setups, because it can all help finesse the sound for a given recording. And different types of acoustics can like different mics better.

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morespaceecho

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 2,302 Member Since:29/01/2011

#35 [url]

Mar 2 17 9:03 PM

gtoledo3 wrote:

I would also maybe listen for ways to have the acoustic work in tandem with the hi-hat and perhaps snare, arrangement wise. So that if the hi hat is playing a figure, the strums of the guitar are almost an extension that adds tonality. 

Another thing that can work out well is to stretch the chord out over a couple parts, having one guitar part play a higher inversion, the other guitar a lower inversion. 

12 string strumming can work out pretty well on recordings because of that extra chime.

+1 to all of that. also just rolling off a good bit of low end can really help. depending on the part/song, maybe a little or a lot of compression. sometimes that takes the fun away though.

www.oldcolonymastering.com

morespaceecho.bandcamp.com

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harland

Gold Finger

Posts: 926 Member Since:05/02/2011

#36 [url]

Mar 2 17 9:27 PM

Hey Norm, just listen again to the acoustic on "Help" and you will feel much better about any acoustic sound you've ever recorded. :)

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maarvold

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,097 Member Since:23/01/2011

#37 [url]

Mar 3 17 9:25 AM

queef bag wrote:
...just over the player's right shoulder looking down at guitar (as mentioned earlier)...

I wondered if I should have clarified that.  What I actually meant was maybe 20" in front of the guitarist's right shoulder (more or less).  

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gtoledo3

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,115 Member Since:23/10/2013

#38 [url]

Mar 3 17 9:34 AM

Either one - in front, or back by the ear, is definitely my go-to if it doesn't seem to be working directly in front.

My L-50 in particular, really works best this way. Maybe that's colored my perception but because of that, when recording other f-hole acoustics I will usually try one of those positions out and go with it more often than not. It gives it a bit more beef and overall balance to the tone. As opposed to the the "in front at the 12th fret" method.

With dreadnoughts, I am as likely to record out in front.

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,318 Member Since:04/02/2011

#39 [url]

Mar 3 17 11:56 AM

Archtop acoustic is a different matter entirely.

Those guitars are designed to project and throw sound very far, and I tend to like them better mic'd not-super-close.

Sort of like the guitar version of a musical theater vocalist! Most archtops aren't "pretty" sounding up close. Particularly older Epiphones, Strombergs, etc.... the "cutting power" archtops.

brad allen williams

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ganglion

Silverado

Posts: 226 Member Since:31/01/2011

#40 [url]

Mar 3 17 3:03 PM

Doesn't matter what sweet spot i aim the guitar, it's inevitable the player will move. And i do the same thing whenever i record myself. Also, I love a 57 (along with a condenser) when i'm recording anything really strummy

Danny Kalb www.dannykalb.com

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