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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,777 Member Since:26/01/2011

#61 [url]

May 14 17 6:46 AM

I love vinyl, I just hate the noise... even if it has none at first, it will eventually.

No keeping all that flaked off skin floating through the air from those grooves in the long run... and I'm a neatnick cleanfreak. Dust is truly gross.

Now this doesn't stop me from listening to vinyl from time to time but in the long run annoys me to the point where I stop listening and go do something else. It doesn't "pull me in" like tape does (with all its inherent noise and flaws). Funny how human nature can be. I'm sure tape bugs the hell out of some.

I guess I edit to many ticks and pops out of music everyday to enjoy it in my music for "listening pleasure ". Ha ha

YMWV

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,777 Member Since:26/01/2011

#62 [url]

May 14 17 6:57 AM

knoppenman wrote:

zmix wrote:
I've had some fantastically good vinyl pressed in the last few years...

Listening to a test pressing is so soothing, mostly because it screams" "DONE..!" like no other medium...

So true!
 

I don't know, in Mastering I've learned there is no such thing as done when it comes to artist and their music.  Done never really seems done in our world. 

I will say to the artist vinyl seems like the most secure medium for their music, they know no one will ever go through the effort it takes to copy it.  I think musicians are looking for security when it comes to their efforts (wether they know it or not) and vinyl really answers this call.

Funny, a flawed 100 plus year old medium is the most secure medium for our industry... that should speak volumes kids!

Yes, yes we truly are screwed Virginia...

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

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mdm

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,739 Member Since:27/01/2011

#63 [url]

May 14 17 9:19 AM

silvertone wrote:
No brainer... expect most bands that I deal with whole recording budgets don't equal what the vinyl cost to produce. My guess would be most bands don't even make any profit on vinyl in the end. It is a big promotional tool though. Looks good. Is fun to hold and look at.

As for sound, every time I hear a tick and pop it reminds me of why I don't like them medium. To me all that distracts from the music. I'm sure it's just my ME ears but vinyl is not fun for me to listen to. It becomes annoying to me after a while.

Funny how people are looking to an accent inferior medium as a savior for the industry. Every band asks me about it, when I tell them the actual cost you should see the look on their face. Then they just post their music to a free streaming service. Many are even skipping making the CD.

The one common thing is everybody is looking for some medium to save the industry. We have a medium. We have a means to control it, we have a means to track it. We just don't have any laws to protect us or anyone to police it.

Life is funny... unfortunately it's our livelihood we are talking about... and have been for 15 fucking years now, so don't expect things to change. We live in a self centered very greedy world now when it comes to corporations and business, I myself don't ever expect that to change in our life time... except to get worse.

Good luck everyone.

Yeah, I know what you mean. 
Ideally, the best format is AAA reel-to-reel analog tape, which you could get in the 60s and 70s, but not many people bought it.  Perhaps because threading tape is a bit technical, perhaps due to the storage and winding issues...  8-track was a comprimise in that respect.  People didn't care about pops too much in those days, apparently, as vinyl was a big seller, by comparison.

I remember when I made the jump from cassette to vinyl.  The first time I used a shitty record player on a shitty system and I preferred cassettes, with dolby making them quiet and pop-less.  Subsequently I bought a decent turntable and had a better integrated amp, so that the vinyl sounded more dynamic overall, and I forgot the rumble and popping.

Hopefully I won't come across as too arrogant or mean, but... if a band is going to produce an album, and that album won't even pay for the cost of pressings, artistic and personal considerations aside, perhaps that kind of band shouldn't be considered as an example for what the record industry should be aiming for?

If Vinyl is too limited then a new 'vinyl' should be invented.  Something physical which is hi-fi friendly and that can be sold to a third party if one desires.. not a licensed package of data. 



 

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soapfoot

Ruby Baby

Posts: 7,404 Member Since:04/02/2011

#65 [url]

May 14 17 11:34 AM

Vinyl is GREAT merch at shows. The best.

Almost nobody will ever buy a CD... at least nobody in the US under 40. But vinyl is a good seller. Vinyl is a good souvenir, if nothing else.

brad allen williams

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gold

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,517 Member Since:27/01/2011

#66 [url]

May 14 17 2:30 PM

From an engineering standpoint it is fun to work with. I like having actual technical constraints that have to be heeded. When the record skips it's hard to obfuscate with techno artistry.

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John Eppstein

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,274 Member Since:31/05/2015

#67 [url]

May 14 17 3:03 PM

zmix wrote:

maarvold wrote:My POV on the question of audio quality, stated in an overly simplistic way, is that when a recording/playback system exists where, in a highly controlled environment and with source material that is very well known to the listener*, 1,000 out of 1,000 people are unable to differentiate the input from the output: only then will the issue of how good is good enough be settled.  


* The source could be a recording of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", a concert-level Steinway grand piano, the sound of their child's voice, etc.  

1000 out of 1000 would be impossible, even in a placebo test.  500 out of 1000 would still be equal to guessing


 

No, it would not, not if the same 500 people got it right a majority of times.

In such a case it would be PROOF that SOME people (but not all) can definitely hear a difference.

What we have here is a classic case of misinterpretation of data (possibly to "prove" a predetermined point.) This is one of the many reasons I dislike and distrust such "studies".

If one person got it right 500 of 1000 times it would be guessing. But that's not the same thing.

If 1000 people got it right 500 times (total) you have a meaningless result because your sample is insufficient to tell you anything.

You'd need multiple results for each subject, each taken under exactly the same conditions (meaning individual tests, not several tests in succession) with each subjects responses compiled, not all responses lumped together.

If ONE PERSON out of 1000 got it right 100% of the time over many tests it would be (A) proof that there IS an audible difference and (B) proof that most people's hearing probably isn't good enough to tell, at least without training.

Not all people have equal abilities.

Scientific rigor is a bitch.

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John Eppstein

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,274 Member Since:31/05/2015

#68 [url]

May 14 17 3:08 PM

silvertone wrote:
I love vinyl, I just hate the noise... even if it has none at first, it will eventually.

No keeping all that flaked off skin floating through the air from those grooves in the long run... and I'm a neatnick cleanfreak. Dust is truly gross.

Now this doesn't stop me from listening to vinyl from time to time but in the long run annoys me to the point where I stop listening and go do something else. It doesn't "pull me in" like tape does (with all its inherent noise and flaws). Funny how human nature can be. I'm sure tape bugs the hell out of some.

I guess I edit to many ticks and pops out of music everyday to enjoy it in my music for "listening pleasure ". Ha ha

YMWV

Well, no, not if you're rich enough to afford one of those $8,000 needleless laser turntables and clean your records with canned compressed air before playing. image

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zmix

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,189 Member Since:20/01/2011

#69 [url]

May 14 17 8:33 PM

John Eppstein wrote:
zmix wrote:

maarvold wrote:My POV on the question of audio quality, stated in an overly simplistic way, is that when a recording/playback system exists where, in a highly controlled environment and with source material that is very well known to the listener*, 1,000 out of 1,000 people are unable to differentiate the input from the output: only then will the issue of how good is good enough be settled.  


* The source could be a recording of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", a concert-level Steinway grand piano, the sound of their child's voice, etc.  

1000 out of 1000 would be impossible, even in a placebo test.  500 out of 1000 would still be equal to guessing


 

No, it would not, not if the same 500 people got it right a majority of times.

In such a case it would be PROOF that SOME people (but not all) can definitely hear a difference.

What we have here is a classic case of misinterpretation of data (possibly to "prove" a predetermined point.) This is one of the many reasons I dislike and distrust such "studies".

If one person got it right 500 of 1000 times it would be guessing. But that's not the same thing.

If 1000 people got it right 500 times (total) you have a meaningless result because your sample is insufficient to tell you anything.

You'd need multiple results for each subject, each taken under exactly the same conditions (meaning individual tests, not several tests in succession) with each subjects responses compiled, not all responses lumped together.

If ONE PERSON out of 1000 got it right 100% of the time over many tests it would be (A) proof that there IS an audible difference and (B) proof that most people's hearing probably isn't good enough to tell, at least without training.

Not all people have equal abilities.

Scientific rigor is a bitch.

Yes, you are absolutely correct.  Thanks for making this distinction, it is *not* trivial..!!!

I misread "1,000 people" as "1,000 trials",  in which case 500 out of 1000  [trials] would be guessing.




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silvertone

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,777 Member Since:26/01/2011

#70 [url]

May 15 17 5:47 AM

John Eppstein wrote:

silvertone wrote:
I love vinyl, I just hate the noise... even if it has none at first, it will eventually.

No keeping all that flaked off skin floating through the air from those grooves in the long run... and I'm a neatnick cleanfreak. Dust is truly gross.

Now this doesn't stop me from listening to vinyl from time to time but in the long run annoys me to the point where I stop listening and go do something else. It doesn't "pull me in" like tape does (with all its inherent noise and flaws). Funny how human nature can be. I'm sure tape bugs the hell out of some.

I guess I edit to many ticks and pops out of music everyday to enjoy it in my music for "listening pleasure ". Ha ha

YMWV

Well, no, not if you're rich enough to afford one of those $8,000 needleless laser turntables and clean your records with canned compressed air before playing. image

I'd bet you that you would still get a skip somewhere John or at least an irregularity in the read from the laser... just like CD's.  Which I would have to believe has a much more stabler laser since it is aligned by the prism so it always reads the edge of the pit.  Wonder if they use similar technology to keep the laser in the groove.  Oh well, even if they did, I bet it would eventually skip just like a CD can.
 

Silvertone Mastering, celebrating 28 years in business.

www.silvertonemastering.com

Last Edited By: silvertone May 15 17 10:28 AM. Edited 1 time.

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