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johnr

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Posts: 1,561 Member Since:25/01/2011

#2 [url]

Feb 21 11 2:53 AM

Electric motors give high torque at low rpm, hence the impressive acceleration from a standing start. At higher speeds it won't accelerate quite so rapidly. Nice looking car though.

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peterpoyser

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,234 Member Since:10/02/2011

#3 [url]

Feb 21 11 8:18 AM

Here's an Electric Rolls Royce.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1358657/Rolls-Royce-unveil-electric-limousine-run-2p-mile.html


 
And BMW will produce a new Brand into their portfolio altogether in 2013.
A Premium quality lightweight carbon fibre body on an Aluminum Frame.
A quality small car for the city of the future, addressing transport issues.
They'll be a variety of set ups some with more luggage space.
Others with Hybrid power trains for extended range.




The Brussels car is very reminiscent of the Morgan Life Car.

http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/sales/lifecar_2010/lifecar_2010.html

Developed in conjunction with with Oxfod University.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2009/100909.html



PP

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wireline

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,119 Member Since:24/01/2011

#6 [url]

Feb 21 11 8:47 AM

Elon could save the US space program AND the car industry. My hero.



Wouldn't the open cockpit be a bit of a problem in space?

Ken Morgan

Please...Give It A Rest

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peterpoyser

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,234 Member Since:10/02/2011

#10 [url]

Feb 21 11 10:11 AM

Quote: "How do you see the BMW brand in comparison to Gordon Murray's T25 etc. on the istream platform?"


Firstly, this new BRAND will be a sub brand, a new BRAND altogether from the BMW Group to address the future problems anticipated in huge cities.

BMW Group has been spectacularly successful in achieving what other Manufacturers have failed to do as their portfolio of Brands increased exponentially as they bought up smaller, failing, Manufacturers.

That is to achieve a distinct "BRAND separation" where the Corporate
Identity and Target Consumers of the Brand are totally different. Quite utterly
distinct! Yet taken as a whole, they cover the Premium Vehicles most widely
desired, across the represented market.


As the Premium Manufacturer of a wide range of Premium Products, their
portfolio represents the most profitable sector of each represented market.
Rolls Royce. BMW. MINI.


Profitability is extremely important, and gets harder to achieve as the
class of Vehicle becomes smaller. So this is a huge challenge for any
Manufacturer.

BMW have the edge, with their related partners, because of a new type of Carbon Fibre that has been developed, which will enable a strong light body to
be utilised that is none the less, excellent as a F1 Body in strength, but remains
competitively priced for a consumer seeking a Premium Product.


They also have been rolling out, on the quiet, with the assistance of customers,
Electric Cars in varying guises for the purpose of ironing out every problem
and expectation that a customer actually using such a vehicle on a daily basis
might experience.

All that profoundly enlightening information that has been gathered from
real life experience, will be utilised in informing and shaping the future
Products of the forthcoming new BRAND.


I don't believe I'm qualified or that if would be right to comment on the Models you mentioned.
 
Only wish every employee of that Company every success for the future.

Competition is not a problem.
 
 


I do however, have certain personal reservations about specific matters that
I could discuss in a wider sense, but only by removing them right away, from
the Manufacturer concerned, and discussing concepts, principles and ideas.

For instance, as it's not in production. I'm wondering how the Brussels Model
might perform in a European crash test, given the shape of its radiator, and
front end.

 
It's easily predictable that it would not get a high rating, i.e. be considered a comparatively safe car should it crash into you. Small Manufacturers, (should it ever go into actual production) concentrate largely and purely on design aesthetics, and so can easily produce a design like this.

But Manufacturers that produce Vehicles that will be bought by consumers en mass, have both a legal and competitive duty to ensure their Vehicles meet highly particularised specifications, and the demands of these can be very different, in varying parts of the world. For instance the MINI alone is exported to 88 different countries around the world.

Far exceeding the most demanding criteria, likely in the foreseeable future
anywhere in the world, is the simplest way to approach this problem, and of
course the most expensive. But that  is the reason you buy the best really, to get the best possible experience you can, and why it costs more.

 


On the concept of Modular Production, as a general principle, it used to be
the case historically that Chassis and Body Frame were kept separately in
production.
Years ago when William Morris started that's how they did it. But later it was found that many advantages were to be gained by building the body,
and the frame together, into one single unit.


The big problem that REAL Vehicle Designers have to face, is that consumers
actually demand today, a set of absolutely diametrically opposed factors, that
they wish to be completely optimised.

They want their Vehicle to be very Strong.
Yet require the Kerbweight to be very Light.

They want lots of Zip, Power and Acceleration.
But also want Fuel Consumption and Costs Low.

They want the Vehicle to have a Fantastic looking Design.
And yet be Safe for anyone they Hit, or should they Crash themselves.

They want an Ever Increasing amount of Functional Technologies within the Cockpit.
But want the Cost of the Vehicle to be as Competitively Priced as possible, between Brands.

They want the Space into the Cockpit and for all their Passengers, to be Roomy and Comfortable.
Yet want the Overall Dimensions of the Outer Surface of the Vehicle, to be able
to be squeezed into a Small Space.

Can you see the problem?

Addressing all these criteria, involves input from a lot of very clever people, but manging to do it a Great Looking Design is much more difficult than people might think. 

Creating and Producing a Singular Cohesive Style, conforming to the Broader Values evoked and espoused by the Brand Identity, that emotively communicates to Consumers. Is not easy to do.


 
But I remember that during WWII when Modular Design and Manufacturing Methods were utilised to make the Atlantic Convoy Merchant Ships.
 
The Stresses would at times cause these Great Ships to simply come apart. In many cases you had half a Ship here, and half a Ship there, bobbing about in the Sea.

If you scroll down this link there are pictures of Ships Cracking Apart. I
have Movie Footage of Ships broken in half, bobbing up and down in the
Atlantic.

http://navalmerchantshiparticles.blogspot.com/2010/03/oh-those-famous-cracks.html


The idea, is to have Vehicles, rushing about our Motorways Manufactured in
the same way.

One Manufacturer, made a decision a while back.

It would run all its lines at 150% the rate of all it competitors.

This manufacture decided it would be the biggest, and followed a policy of
utilising the same Platform (but differently dimensioned) for its entire Model
Range, so that utilising the same bolts and parts where ever it could, would
enable it to reduce costs making it more efficient.

So....
 
From the ground up, nothing in the Platform any of their Model Range of
Vehicles is actually optimised for the function of the vehicle.

 
To me this is a Fundamental Design Error, as is the blinkered pursuance of
Market Growth in Volume, over Excellence in Quality.


It is no surprise to me then that this Manufacturer, has been losing masses
of Profitability withdrawing Vehicles in Recalls.

My Brother told me that when he last examined one of their Engines to see
why failed on the Destruction Test Bed.


Sand was found in the Engine Casting.
 
Alas! 



PP




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ssltech

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,044 Member Since:22/01/2011

#11 [url]

Feb 21 11 10:15 AM

Seems it's not a purely electric car

[url]

But if it really does get 148mpg for normal driving, it's still very impressive.

-jonhodgson

The words "plug-in" makes the word "gallon" disingenuous at best, and intentionally deceptive at worst... hence I have some considerable contempt for the inclusion of "148mpg".

-Keith Andrews -If I can't fix it, I can fix it so [i]NOBODY[/i] can fix it!

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peterpoyser

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,234 Member Since:10/02/2011

#12 [url]

Feb 21 11 10:55 AM

 Please watch this Short Video.
 

 
 
This will give you an idea of how much data has already been collected in order for the Manufacturer to understand what real world consumers will want in the future from such a vehicle. To iron out all the problems, and give the consumer what they really desire.
 


Petrol Heads are already well catered for, as this Company is full to the
brim with them.

But most real world customers, require something different altogether.

And that's what must be understood to produce.

A very successful new BRAND!

Success built on the shoulders

Of established Success!



PP

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yz

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,828 Member Since:26/01/2011

#13 [url]

Feb 21 11 11:00 AM


The words "plug-in" makes the word "gallon" disingenuous at best, and intentionally deceptive at worst... hence I have some considerable contempt for the inclusion of "148mpg".

-ssltech

+1

We need a standard for measuring the efficiency of electric cars...  for conventional internal combustion vehicles we settled on the miles per gallon/kilometers per liter/liters per 100km, for electrics we may need a kWh per km - or watt-hour per meter - rating.

AND a standard track for the test, allowing for acceleration, deceleration with energy recovery, stop/standing start etc so that all aspects of the technologies under test will be taken into the efficiency number.


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jonhodgson

Gold Finger

Posts: 341 Member Since:28/01/2011

#14 [url]

Feb 21 11 11:04 AM


The words "plug-in" makes the word "gallon" disingenuous at best, and intentionally deceptive at worst... hence I have some considerable contempt for the inclusion of "148mpg".

-ssltech


It depends on what they're quoting.


Are they quoting some sort of combined figure, which includes charging from the mains, or are they quoting the figure they get "disconnected".


It's a hybrid, though it can run for a period on pure electric it seems

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peterpoyser

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,234 Member Since:10/02/2011

#15 [url]

Feb 21 11 11:28 AM

Quote: "We need a standard for measuring the efficiency of electric
cars...  for conventional internal combustion vehicles we settled on the
miles per gallon/kilometers per liter/liters per 100km, for electrics we may
need a kWh per km - or watt-hour per meter - rating.
AND a standard track for the test, allowing for acceleration, deceleration with energy recovery, stop/standing start etc so that all aspects of the technologies under test will be taken into the efficiency number."


 
In Germany an extremely distinguished body of leading authorities, covering all the scientific disciplines involved, worked for several years to outline every such
Parameter, test every type of Vehicle Power Train and Fuel Supply, and ultimately determine, the very best potential solution for the world possible.


They concluded their work by making an extremely clear recommendation.
 
angel



P

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peterpoyser

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,234 Member Since:10/02/2011

#18 [url]

Feb 21 11 1:13 PM

Quote: "The Imperia GP has a 212 horsepower engine paired up with a 134 horsepowered electric engine.  That means this particular plug-in hybrid can go 45 miles on a single charge."
 


The MINI Concept E has a range of 156 Miles in perfect conditions.

Varying from 109/96/104 city/hwy/comb under normal driving conditions.

450 Vehicles tested by volunteers for over a year, Summer & Winter Driving.

Once you utilise a hybrid design, the range expands and the battery recharges.

Whilst the car is in use.



This has been followed up by the BMW 1 Series Concept E with as big a Fleet as the MINI E

But The BMW 5 Series is also lauching an Electric Model for China.

http://www.carsuk.net/bmw-5-series-electric-for-china/

By the time BMW make a Production Electric Car you can buy.

In this part of the world. It will be a very, very good one!




PP 

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