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iris

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Posts: 798 Member Since: 17/01/2012

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Jan 24 12 3:13 AM

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I remember a really funny EQ preset in the Digital Performer menu called "40 yr. old male hearing" with everything above 10k slammed to the ceiling!
Sad to say this one is lightly testing me. It's been some years since my hearing was checked... some small high end loss then... but not bad. Now pushing 50... I'm very aware of my potential to go overboard at the top.
I'm attempting to use my smarts... not be afraid to cut... very careful to boost... but... almost thought about  a teenager assistant to teach in trade for "full range ears" on important or time crunch projects.
I've played around with the +2 hi end boosts on powered monitors... but I prefer working flat.
Also... got "drivers ear"... - the left one, from rollin' on down the highway with the window open...
it is weaker then my right... and sometimes my mixes get leaning to the left. I have to turn my chair to check balance sometimes... and often will re-pan something after that test, usually involving a cymbal or tambourine part.

Anybody?

Phoenix Eyeris Nijisan Recording Phase One... in which Doris gets her oats! www.phoenixeyeris.com "Pictcha the finga's going 'chucka chucka'..."

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wireline

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,114 Member Since:24/01/2011

#1 [url]

Jan 24 12 7:24 AM

Try 55 yr old male who spends a lot of time on the road driving 75MPH from gig to gig in pickup, and who  spent 15 yrs around pistols, shotguns, artillery, while on active duty military. 

What I think helps is switching monitors during tracking/mixing frequently, and moving around in your control area to keep a fresh perspective. Taking breaks is a must - take them BEFORE you feel like you need one.   Sad to say, I must also check what my ears tell me with metering - and really pay close attention to system calibration so the meters don't end up lying to me.

I also like to use a known musical selection to calibrate my brain as to what it should be listening for.

and...roll down the OTHER window....works just as well, but without all the noise

Ken Morgan

Please...Give It A Rest

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seth

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,473 Member Since:26/01/2011

#2 [url]

Jan 24 12 8:25 AM

Listen to a lot of finished records on your monitors in your studio and get a sense for the top and bottom. Then make your mixes sound in the same ball park to you. You don't need someone else's hearing, you need perspective on your own.

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eric harizanos

Gold Finger

Posts: 518 Member Since:04/02/2011

#3 [url]

Jan 24 12 9:09 AM

unless you have serious hearing loss, I wouldn't worry too much about a few dB loss in the high end.
Your hearing adapts and your brain too to some altered "hearing response".
Furthermore, after all these years, you know your hearing system better and you brain-ear analysis is much faster and accurate.
I'd just try to be conservative with the mixing levels to not damage your cochlea cells furthermore.

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mgod

Platinum Blonde

Posts: 1,801 Member Since:21/01/2011

#4 [url]

Jan 24 12 10:25 AM

I definitely have lost quite a bit of top end over the years, despite playing bass and doing my best to stay far away from guitar and drums.

But, apparently, I still have better hearing than most people I know and experientially, I think I hear better now than when I had all that top end. So the brain must compensate, or 10,000 hours of listening is more important than all those little waves in your ear. So I'd trust your years as well as your ears.

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berolzheimer

Aqua Marine

Posts: 2,863 Member Since:29/01/2011

#6 [url]

Jan 24 12 1:58 PM

Start carrying earplugs with you everywhere, & use them if you're going to be exposed to any elevated levels- tools, loud vehicles, whatever.  I often wear mine when driving, even with the windows closed, & while skiing to keep the wind noise into my ears down.   It just helps reset my ears & keep them fresh.  Sometimes before starting a mix I'll wear them for a couple hours even if I'm not exposed to any noise.

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tom eaton

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Posts: 1,334 Member Since:25/01/2011

#7 [url]

Jan 24 12 1:59 PM

Be careful about listening to fully mastered CDs in your control room, and trying to match them.

-compasspnt


In terms of level, yes... but in terms of frequency balance I'd have to disagree.  If you like the balance of the commercial CD I see no problem using it as a guide for how much top is too much.  The problem comes when you can't tell how much top is on the commercial CD because you can't hear it anymore!

I've heard of folks who drive and sleep with earplugs in.  And always have earplugs in their pockets.  And keep boxes of earplugs in their glove compartments. 

There was a study that showed that Brits have more hearing loss typically in the right ear and Americans have more in the left... entirely from time spent in the car.  Imagine having your ear 6" away from a large vibrating drum head for any extended period of time... that's what your car window is, really.

Howard Leight Super Leight... 33dB... very comfortable and super effective.

http://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leight-R-01677-Pre-Shaped-Earplugs/dp/B004VN62JK

I always have boxes in my travel bag, in the car, at the studio and at home.


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organica

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Posts: 748 Member Since:21/01/2011

#8 [url]

Jan 24 12 2:18 PM




Start carrying earplugs with you everywhere, & use them if you're going to be exposed to any elevated levels- tools, loud vehicles, whatever.  I often wear mine when driving, even with the windows closed, & while skiing to keep the wind noise into my ears down.   It just helps reset my ears & keep them fresh.  Sometimes before starting a mix I'll wear them for a couple hours even if I'm not exposed to any noise.

-berolzheimer

nice Paul.
what kind of plugs are you folks using? fitted ones? how much of a db drop?

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compasspnt

Diamond Forever

Posts: 21,102 Member Since:08/01/2011

#9 [url]

Jan 24 12 2:40 PM


In terms of level, yes... but in terms of frequency balance I'd have to disagree.

-tom_eaton

Yes, that's why I said "be careful," rather than "don't"

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strangeandbouncy

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Posts: 2,150 Member Since:02/02/2011

#11 [url]

Jan 24 12 3:29 PM

Hi,


  I use plugs at gigs, on trains and planes. I guess I should think about it when being driven, but I think it is pretty illegal to drive with them in! I have a really cheep decibel meter. I use it every day to check my monitoring levels. I try to stick to 83dB(Fletcher-Munchen curves anyone?) as much as possible. I sometimes carry it with me. It is astonishing how loud things are. London Underground for instance . . . .

Ruh Roh . . . . .

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wireline

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,114 Member Since:24/01/2011

#12 [url]

Jan 24 12 3:35 PM

FWIW I have been sleeping with ear plugs since 1990. I also, of course, wear them on planes.

-faganking

Why?  (No jokes about sleeping since 1990?  Isn't it about time to wake up?)

Ken Morgan

Please...Give It A Rest

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weedywet

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,765 Member Since:20/01/2011

#13 [url]

Jan 24 12 3:40 PM

  everyone loses top end as they age

on the other hand a noise induced hearing loss begins with a notch at around 3k
in fact, the typical, 'he's getting old and blew his hearing out' engineer syndrome is that guys start adding loads of 3k to everything... not top.
you don't have any evidence that your loss is noise induced, rather than a natural progression.
if you can add 1 dB of 10k and switch it in and out and hear the difference, then you don't have a significant high frequency loss.
but on the other hand, I don't see what's wrong with adjusting your monitors so that things sound right t you, in an effort to prevent you adding more top than you really want.
If it's small tweaks, that's basic monitor adjustment and perfectly reasonable.
it was common for years for studios to tailor the high end down a little on big monitors so that things would come out of there bright 'enough'
I know one studio in NY where they did (almost entirely) jingles who severely rolled the top so that all of their work came out purposely bright.
I'm not saying do that, but using the speaker's built in adjustments should be fine.

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strangeandbouncy

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Posts: 2,150 Member Since:02/02/2011

#15 [url]

Jan 24 12 4:35 PM

Three old sound engineers sitting on a park bench . . .


   one says, "It's windy . . . ."

 another says, "No it's not, It's thursday . . . "

 third says, "So am I. Let's go and have a cup of tea . . . . . ."



   Ayefankyewe . . . .




Ruh Roh . . . . .

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zakco

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Posts: 1,064 Member Since:02/03/2011

#16 [url]

Jan 24 12 5:21 PM

  everyone loses top end as they age
on the other hand a noise induced hearing loss begins with a notch at around 3kin fact, the typical, 'he's getting old and blew his hearing out' engineer syndrome is that guys start adding loads of 3k to everything... not top.you don't have any evidence that your loss is noise induced, rather than a natural progression.if you can add 1 dB of 10k and switch it in and out and hear the difference, then you don't have a significant high frequency loss.

-weedywet

Very true. I am 41 and have the predictable drop at 3k (mostly in my right ear) that comes from standing stage left next to a snare drum/crash cymbal for years - no way that could come from my own amp..right? haha...

Since discovering this anomaly, I have made it part of my routine to flip the LR at regular intervals while mixing and I'm VERY concious about being careful with EQ in the 3k range. As you describe, I can easily hear small adjustments at 10k, so as long as clients continue to like what I do, I try not to get too stressed about my hearing. However, I don't go anywhere without earplugs these days...

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iris

Gold Finger

Posts: 798 Member Since:17/01/2012

#17 [url]

Jan 24 12 6:01 PM

Can you guys please type louder?
Having a bit of trouble hearing you...

-compasspnt


Terry strikes! Awesome. I'm laughing this second... but almost can't believe the quality of these responses... YOU GUYS ROCK! This is why I LOVE this site so much it's starting to piss off my girlfriend.

  everyone loses top end as they age
on the other hand a noise induced hearing loss begins with a notch at around 3k, in fact, the typical, 'he's getting old and blew his hearing out' engineer syndrome is that guys start adding loads of 3k to everything... not top.you don't have any evidence that your loss is noise induced, rather than a natural progression.if you can add 1 dB of 10k and switch it in and out and hear the difference, then you don't have a significant high frequency loss

-weedywet


That is perfect info. I can easily hear 1 db either direction at 10k... I believe I can hear an .05 shift there.
And no mechanical damage... i never catch myself boosting 3k... I will look at 4.8 to 5.2k as the prime boost for a vox edge, etc... but ever so carefully there.

Massive humble thanks all for such excellent info!

Phoenix Eyeris Nijisan Recording Phase One... in which Doris gets her oats! www.phoenixeyeris.com "Pictcha the finga's going 'chucka chucka'..."

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iris

Gold Finger

Posts: 798 Member Since:17/01/2012

#18 [url]

Jan 24 12 6:04 PM

Three old sound engineers sitting on a park bench . . .

   one says, "It's windy . . . ."
 another says, "No it's not, It's thursday . . . "
 third says, "So am I. Let's go and have a cup of tea . . . . . ."


   Ayefankyewe . . . .



-strangeandbouncy


HAHAHAHAHAHAHa! Oh man!

Phoenix Eyeris Nijisan Recording Phase One... in which Doris gets her oats! www.phoenixeyeris.com "Pictcha the finga's going 'chucka chucka'..."

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johnwhynot

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,935 Member Since:22/01/2011

#20 [url]

Jan 25 12 12:39 AM

TAKE BREAKS.

LONG ONES if possible.

Hearing loss seems to follow hereditary lines as well.  My older brother suffers, as does my sister.  My pops had progressive deafness from middle age on.  Ended up being pretty much profoundly deaf.

My mom, 87, hears perfectly.  At 53 I have some loss at the very top, and some occasional mild tinnitus.  But I thank whatever providential influence has allowed me to inherit her hearing.

To this day I hear better than just about anyone I record, even the young 'uns.  In my case it's pure luck.  I don't use much protection and have not avoided live playing, although I do monitor at very reasonable levels in the control room.

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