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sidechain

Gold Finger

Posts: 644 Member Since:03/02/2011

#81 [url]

Jul 16 12 2:29 AM


I suspect that the "slow" thing is pretty common...  at least for me and those in my close circles.  There's that moment in a crowded, noisy environment where you hear "ph" or "ff" or "th" or "dh" or was it "ts", or even maybe "ng"... etc...  and it takes a moment to organize the surrounding context into something comprehensible..  not uncommon at all, I would say.  Probably far more uncommon to admit such a deficit on an engineering board than to experience it.

But,

We ARE all human, after all, aren't we?

With the possible exception of Terry, of course...

Devin Knutson Zen Buddhist to hot-dog vendor: "Make me one with everything." www.reverbnation.com/devinknutson

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bill mueller

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,350 Member Since:20/01/2011

#82 [url]

Jul 16 12 9:49 AM

I've had hearing loss for a long time now, since the late seventies, when I thought there was something wrong with my gear because all my fadeouts panned across to the left at the very end. Now, when mixing, I always put the drums in player perspective so the hats are in the left speaker. I balance them so that I can hear them just slightly and then usually pull them down another half to one dB. I try to have someone with great ears check my mixes for me. Lots of things to get used to and compensate for.
On another note, my mom has hearing loss too and she described the problems she was having in understanding and responding to speech as due to her "slow hearing". I've noticed this myself where someone will say something and my first response is to say "Huh?", but then a moment goes by and I realize what the word was. Very odd. Not sure if this is a common thing?

-harland

Harland,

http://www.easecd.com/lecture.html

I gave this lecture in 1994 to a gathering of international scientists and doctors gathered to discuss the challenges of successfully treating brain injured children. The purpose of the lecture was to describe the process of psychoacoustics, how perceiving auditory information is affected by neurological health and how the process can be improved. Now, almost twenty years later, I might change some of it, but basically it has been proven true by many independent studies over the years. It is worth stating that I have finally created that machine I talked about at the end of the lecture. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/electronic-auditory-stimulation/id461769387?ls=1&mt=8

We all are on a constantly sliding scale of neurological health. Very very few are neurologically optimum (genius) and thankfully very few are in coma. The ones in the middle are all of us and our neurological health changes from the moment of conception through death and through each day, weeks, months, seasons and years. The bottom line is that all of us are changing every day and we have to work to keep our sensory perspectives both because of the condition of our sensory hardware but also because of the condition of our neurological hardware. It does not happen automatically.

Bill

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bob olhsson

Aqua Marine

Posts: 3,331 Member Since:25/01/2011

#83 [url]

Jul 16 12 6:59 PM

a NOISE INDUCED hearing loss is typified by the ("boiler maker's") notch at 3kbut age related hearing loss is more related to the rolling of highs as though charts indicate.of course most modern humans have a bit of both. 

-weedywet

My understanding is that recent research suggests it's almost all noise induced loss after something like age 10. Older people have simply been exposed to lots more noise. At one time men were typically exposed to lots more noise than women but no more.

www.audiomastery.com Bob's room 615 562-4346 georgetownmasters.com Georgetown Masters 615 254-3233 www.thewombforums.com

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nicksevilla

Silverado

Posts: 247 Member Since:25/01/2011

#84 [url]

Jul 16 12 8:20 PM

I had mine tested back in February.

Straight up until 6K, then the slope started slowly downwards.

When I was 32, 10 years ago, the slope started at around 8K...

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eightyeightkeys

Gold Finger

Posts: 482 Member Since:06/02/2011

#86 [url]

Jul 17 12 9:01 PM

I use shooters headphones when working in the shop...any hammering, drilling, table saw etc...they are on. I even use them while mowing the lawn...I could give a damn if I look funny to the neighbours.

I bring my ER-15 plugs to almost every concert and I should be bringing them to EVERY concert without fail. Shame on me.

Biggest single improvement. NAC ! Thank -you, thank-you Bill Mueller.
Still taking one supplement per day and damn it, it works ! No tinnitus for me.

David Tkaczuk

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.

Posts: 1,503 Member Since:28/11/2011

#87 [url]

Jul 17 12 9:18 PM


Biggest single improvement. NAC ! Thank -you, thank-you Bill Mueller.
Still taking one supplement per day and damn it, it works ! No tinnitus for me.[image]

-eightyeightkeys

What's 'NAC'?

 "Real People, Real Performances."

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eightyeightkeys

Gold Finger

Posts: 482 Member Since:06/02/2011

#89 [url]

Jul 18 12 3:35 PM

It works, but, you have you give it time and the effect is very, very gradual.
The good news is that it's relatively cheap :

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SW854/ItemDetail

Initially, I took 3 capsules daily for about six months. Now I'm down to a "maintenance" dose of one capsule per day.
It not only got rid of my tinnitus that I had in one ear, but, it also noticeably improved my hearing in general. This is only anecdotal of course.

David Tkaczuk

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turtlerock

Silverado

Posts: 207 Member Since:26/05/2011

#90 [url]

Aug 15 12 2:52 AM

I find these threads interesting , 
my hearing has always been ( when tested) better then the resolution of  either the equipment or the expert doing the testing. 

.. , "press the button when you hear the tone "

                              "err the 4 k one or the 8 k harmonic"
" .. no there is only one tone "
                              "no actually i can hear two "
    "no you  cant .."
                             " yes i can"
" well let me just check that ... oh hey.. there is an overtone  but is really low " 

"gee nobody has ever heard that before "  etc etc 

how is it you guys get results that you either trust or worry about ...?

I have the best ENT guy in my town  he loves  it when I come in  and we get seriously into 
things ..
 he  says he spends the rest of his days just  digging fungus out of old guys ears and putting grommets into children  or in surgery installing bionic ears 
he reckons its very rare that people actually talk about with any sureness what they are hearing 
or day to day changes.
 
He has said time and time that we ( sound guys) are blessed with the abilty to understand our hearing 
And we should never take that  for granted ..
I am always suprised at this 
 but i take it as given .
We are lucky 

I think we went to different schools together Rick O'Neil Turtlerock Sydney Australia turtlerockmastering.com

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wireline

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,120 Member Since:24/01/2011

#91 [url]

Aug 15 12 6:08 AM

I did go and have mine checked the other day.  The things that I suspected were confirmed, but what I found REALLY annoying is my total lack of understanding of the way these things are conducted.

Example:  All the test tones are monotone sine waves.  NO harmonic structures, supposedly purest of testing conditions (the headphones were pieces of crap).  OK, but outside of boring synth patches from the 80s, exactly how do these tones test real world hearing?  Everything EXCEPT hearing booth tests is made of harmonics, so exactly what did we test?

Example:  The spoken word test was a recorded portion, spoken by some guy with an east coast accent I found to be annoying and hard to understand even at 90db.  Regardless of volume, some of the words were pronounced in ways completely different from anything I've heard in 35 yrs.  What did this test?

Example:  The test charts really stop at 8K... What does THIS test? 


Ken Morgan

Please...Give It A Rest

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bill mueller

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,350 Member Since:20/01/2011

#92 [url]

Aug 15 12 8:44 AM

Ken,

Single sine waves are the simplest signal to quantify as they only contain one frequency. ALL sound is built of sine waves, so it is fair to take out all the sine waves we don't want to test, which leaves the one we do want to test.

Those dang east coasterners, I can't understand many of them either. They talk too fast. ; ) But since we all get tested with the same source, it makes the test (at least the auditory system part) appropriate.

Audiologists only concern themselves with voice frequencies. They don't test how well you can hear music. Twenty years ago, they only tested up to 4khz. Today, 8 khz is an improvement.


Discovery.

For those with early morning ringing, I have discovered that if I listen to a song at medium volume on a pair of headphones within an hour of waking, I can push my tinnitus down significantly for the rest of the day. I also noticed increased tinnitus after taking a nap (I hate naps) and if I do the same thing I can drive the tinnitus down yet again. This might be due to my particular tinnitus which I believe is aggravated by TMJ.

Ginko is still the best supplement IMHO.

Bill

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wireline

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,120 Member Since:24/01/2011

#93 [url]

Aug 15 12 8:59 AM

Good info - thanks Bill

The ginko tablets keep getting stuck in my ears and I can't hear anything though 

Ken Morgan

Please...Give It A Rest

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bill mueller

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,350 Member Since:20/01/2011

#95 [url]

Aug 15 12 12:36 PM

Good info - thanks Bill
The ginko tablets keep getting stuck in my ears and I can't hear anything though  [image]

-wireline

Ken, If you go soak your head first they may work better. ; )

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weedywet

Ruby Baby

Posts: 5,866 Member Since:20/01/2011

#96 [url]

Aug 15 12 12:51 PM




Ken,Audiologists only concern themselves with voice frequencies. They don't test how well you can hear music. Twenty years ago, they only tested up to 4khz. Today, 8 khz is an improvement.

-bill_mueller

well, yes, because the primary focus is on speech recognition.

which is perfectly reasonable.


re: "East Coast accents", I find the proliferation in voiceovers now of that au courant, artificial 'middle American' accent utterly distracting because it's so annoying.

Sorry, but I can still tell when someone's natural accent is one thing, but he/she has been taught (or is attempting to self-inflict) that faux mid-America accent.

I hear it all the time where, in the space of a single paragraph, the person will pronounce "office" once as AW-fiss and once as AH-fiss.

ugh

and again, I am sorry but NO ONE gets his kicks on ROWT 66.
Route rhymes with shoot. Always.
Rout is a different word.


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harland

Gold Finger

Posts: 925 Member Since:05/02/2011

#97 [url]

Aug 15 12 3:24 PM

Ken,Single sine waves are the simplest signal to quantify as they only contain one frequency. ALL sound is built of sine waves, so it is fair to take out all the sine waves we don't want to test, which leaves the one we do want to test.

-bill_mueller

I don't get the idea that all sound is "built" of sine waves. I understand it better when I think of sine waves as similar to mathematics in that neither of them are natural phenomena and both of them are tools used by us in understanding natural phenomena. Or maybe I took that statement too literally?

Harland Giesbrecht

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bill mueller

Aqua Marine

Posts: 4,350 Member Since:20/01/2011

#98 [url]

Aug 15 12 7:48 PM

Harland,

No actually you took it exactly as I meant it. All natural sound is a rich combination of fundamental sine waves and sets of harmonics. I refer you to here for a look at it from a sound composition/synthesis view. http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/musicandcomputers/chapter3/03_03.php

When the article describes a periodic wave, it is talking about a recurring waveform like a sine, square, triangle and sawtooth wave, which are are constructed from a sine wave and a specific harmonic structure. However even non periodic waveforms are constructed by sound events that contain instantaneous combinations of a fundamental tone and a set of harmonics. With a sufficiently complex filter set, you can deconstruct any sound event and at least identify it's components. That is a Fourier principle.

Even the most complex waveforms have at their heart a subset of periodic waves peppered with additional sound events that within themselves contain a fundamental and harmonic structure.

So while natural sound may seem incredibly complex to be so simple, in reality it is that simple when observed from a sufficiently complex system view.

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eightyeightkeys

Gold Finger

Posts: 482 Member Since:06/02/2011

#100 [url]

Aug 17 12 10:02 AM


Here are some articles on NAC and related articles..http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595504000784
...so stick it in yer' ear.

David Tkaczuk

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