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Sep 20 12 9:10 PM

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I have read that these capsules used differing materials but haven't found anywhere that states what was used in each.Anyone know?

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panman

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Sep 21 12 4:27 PM

M934 uses originally nickel membranes, but Schoeps later repaired them with mylar. However I have one M934 capsule from Philips EL 6050/12, that has mylar and appears to have been there right from the Schoeps factory. If not, really neat work. MK24 has nickel too(at least mine has). I also have Telefunken M155 with  M155/1-capsule, that I assume is the same as MK22. The membrane clearly looks like mylar. More than that I cannot say.

Esa Tervala

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strangeandbouncy

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Sep 21 12 4:33 PM

My philips el6050 definitely had nickel,(when I got it) but it was re-skinned by Schoeps with mylar. I still maintain that it sounded, in my memory at least, the same . . . Obviously, couldn't do an A_B test . . .


  iirc, the EL6050 is an M934b . . .

Ruh Roh . . . . .

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panman

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Sep 21 12 5:10 PM


iirc, the EL6050 is an M934b . . .

-strangeandbouncy

I guess you mean EL6050 has an M934b? EL6050 is the amplifier and M934 is the capsule. M934b-capsule does not fit EL6050 body, because there is no thread on the yoke of EL6050, where the capsule is attached with six screws(German "Madenschrauben", forgot the english word)). The "b" stands for, that it fits only the M221b, because the M221b has the thread outside of the other end of the-housing tube. M221(early ones)and M221a have the thread inside  and hence M934a. Telefunken M155 is basically same as M221, but again it has a different thread, so none of these afore mentioned capsules and bodies are interchangeable. There is also a modern version M934c, that fits the M221b, if I remember right.
Now, I was using M934 without any letter, because i don`t know how Philips named it and I never saw Schoeps ever naming this "yoke"-capsule separately. But it is the same capsule as M934a/b.

Esa Tervala

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ratite

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Posts: 382 Member Since:27/01/2011

#5 [url]

Sep 21 12 11:29 PM

Calling David Satz!
How can you tell if you have a nickel membrane without disassembling the cap?The mesh is so fine on these you can't see through it.I was lucky to get a nice pair used by Toshiba EMI with 934B's but I don't know their full history or provenance,mind you they are in beautiful condition and sound great.I can imagine they have a nickel sound (I have an SM23 and some 54's,56's) but I have read that it's not easy to tell with the 221 amp.Presumably no one at Schoeps will reskin caps in Nickel these days?

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strangeandbouncy

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Sep 22 12 3:38 AM

Ok,


   the capsule that is inside the bayonet fitting that fits the EL6050 is exactly the same as the one that fits in a 221,, and I know this because the one I have was fitted into a friends 221 to see if it was working. I thought it was a 934b, and I thought his mic was a 221b.


   as I said in my post, iirc . . .


  many thanks for the clarification!


    ANdyP


   

Ruh Roh . . . . .

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panman

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#7 [url]

Sep 22 12 5:17 AM


How can you tell if you have a nickel membrane without disassembling the cap?The mesh is so fine on these you can't see through it.

You are right, in most cases you cannot see through properly. That`s why I said about M155/1: "The membrane clearly looks like mylar. More than that I cannot say." The one on 6050 and MK24, I have disassembled. I also have an M934a, where you actually can see, that it is nickel.

I have not been able to do any a/b-tests, but the ones with mylar surely sound good too.


Esa Tervala

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ratite

Gold Finger

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Sep 24 12 11:16 PM

I sent a mail to Bernhard Vollmer and part of his response was as follows:

       "In the beginning all M221 capsules had a nickel diaphragm. Later Mylar diaphragms followed and in case of a service we replace the nickel diaphragm as the Mylar is better in all specifications."

   

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panman

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Sep 25 12 1:35 PM


"In the beginning all M221 capsules had a nickel diaphragm.Later Mylar diaphragms followed and in case of a service we replace the nickeldiaphragm as the Mylar is better in all specifications."

-ratite

So, I can safely assume, that my Mylar-M934 left the factory like that as new. Apart from that, no new info here. Why not share some more of what he said?

Esa Tervala

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ratite

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#10 [url]

Sep 25 12 10:22 PM


So, I can safely assume, that my Mylar-M934 left the factory like that as new. Apart from that, no new info here. Why not share some more of what he said?

-panman

Well that's all he said on the matter of capsules.

I also asked him about dating mics by serial No. but apparently only the serial of the capsules was stored for dating purposes,so presumably you could check diaphragm material with these.

Lastly I asked about older power supplies and he said Schoeps will no longer work on them and he recommended the new NTM221 supply for 221 mics.

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bibster

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Nov 5 12 2:56 AM

Hi,

Sorry to dig up a rather oldish thread, but...
I too have a M221/M934 combo, the French RTF version M221F.

The capsule's marked Nr. 2213.

Now, this capsule is rather dirty, have a look:
http://imgur.com/a/xUG3I#0

And then there's the noise... it's a steady pink noise, but pops every now and then. I celaned the high impedance part of the microphone with isopropyl alcohol, and this cur 80% of the pink noise, but the pop's resist.
Have a listen at my GS-post: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/780105-noisy-m934-need-cleaning.html

Any help appreciated!

Paul

PS: And yes, if I need to repost this elsewhere... it;s just that I found some very knowledgeable people in this thread :-)

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klaus

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#12 [url]

Nov 5 12 3:17 AM




That does not look like dirt on the membrane to me, but deteriorated gold sputtering. This can happen when acidic fluids or certain types of chemical solvents seep between the plastic carrier material of the membrane (mylar in this case) and the conductive sputtering (gold). It eventually can partially lift the sputtering and reduce or vary conductivity and capacitance (noise).  

A similar-looking type of sputtering deterioration can also be observed on some mid-1970s Neumann K67/87 capsules. In that case, an electro-chemical formation of a "corona" discoloration (and eventual sputtering deterioration) around the center lead-out screw was due to an inferior type of gold (amalgam) deposit being used.


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bibster

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#14 [url]

Nov 5 12 1:43 PM

That does not look like dirt on the membrane to me, but deteriorated gold sputtering...

It eventually can partially lift the sputtering and reduce or vary conductivity and capacitance (noise). 

-klaus


Klaus,

Not sure if this is a good thing, or a bad thing... If you know what I mean. the sputters I see are thus spots where the conductive layer is gone? (From the backside).
Are these capsules re-membrane-able (is that a word?)  And will it be worth the pennies?

Anyways, the pops we hear in the sample, are they caused by the membrane, or most likely not?
I know, must be hard to tell, but maybe... :-)

Thanks for the welcome, BockAudio!

Paul.

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klaus

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#15 [url]

Nov 5 12 2:28 PM

Hello Paul,
I have unfortunately no good answers for you. 
It is not possible to link what may be membrane deterioration to the symptoms you experience by means of remote analysis. I would therefore contact Bernhard Vollmer in Germany, who took over the vintage Schoeps business a while ago.

Likewise, restoration of M934 capsules to factory specs may be impossible, because Schoeps, as far as I remember, does no longer repair these capsules. Again, you may want to talk to Bernhard Vollmer to confirm this. (http://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=2236.0)

Best of luck,
KH

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bibster

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#16 [url]

Nov 5 12 4:38 PM

Thank you so much, Klaus, for sending me in the right direction!
I will contact Herr Vollmer later this week.

Kind regards,

Paul.

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noahsnyder

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#17 [url]

May 10 16 9:04 PM

Telefonen Schoeps m221

Hi Everyone, 
    I'm new to the forum but not to the scene. I appreciate all you sharing your knowledge. I've run into some of you before in real life or on other forums and through the use of your gear. I'm glad to be here.
   I recently aquired two Telefunken/Schoeps m221 that came with CM9b capsules. I can't find any information on these capsules at all. They are omni. I actually was able to acquire 3 capsules (serial numbers 108, 133, 135). I I haven't been able to fully evaluate them, but I've got high hopes. The mics were listed as m221b but have female threading in the body which means they are 221a or 221 (I think the latter) as they have the chrome Telefunken band which I think is only found on the m221. I believe that means these were made in 1954 and the CM9b capsule is a precurser to the mk22. It's been very hard to find information on these and insight would help.
   Thanks!
       Noah

Last Edited By: noahsnyder May 20 16 10:32 PM. Edited 2 times.

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noahsnyder

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#19 [url]

Jul 31 16 12:00 PM

Indeed, I have checked both the Schoeps website and m221.de and exchanged emails with Bernard over at Schoeps. Very little information and, more surprisingly to me, very little interest from Schoeps or any microphone technicians. These microphones are amazing but need a little love (as all vintage mics do) but, as best as I can tell, since it's not a Neumann and the same repair that's been done many times, no one will touch it. I'm a bit disappointed as I thought I might find someone who was interested in them. They are basically museum pieces as far as I'm concerned with real historic value. I'll continue on with them as I feel they are worth the effort.

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